Wonder why GM is having trouble?

[John_K]

Please explain your answer.

A and B and D: something GM can advertise as "green" (if they still have any advertising money left).

John

 

[01rangerxl]

The previous generation of Silverado hybrid was not impressive either. It had 1-2 MPG gains over a standard 5.3 Silverado.

I don't mean to "bash" GM, but if they are going to build a hybrid, they need to do it right. That means significant mileage gains, reasonably good power, and a reasonable price tag. Ford and Toyota have done this, so it seems that GM should be able to as well. Half-assing vehicles like this is not going to help them turn around.

FWIW, I always thought the Accord Hybrid was really unimpressive too.

 

[Volvohead]

The entire concept of a "hybrid", mild or otherwise, is half-assed.

It's just a bridge technology until the full electrics come on line.

If GM is spending it's R&D money on developing full electrics, then hopefully we'll see the results soon. It had better be good, as they've missed the bus on Hybrids and other high-efficiency IC technologies.

In the meantime, I would rather have a clean diesel, which gets better mileage than most hybrids.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
***??

No matter HOW a thread starts 'round here it always becomes a GM bashing thread about this or that [censored] GM car once owned. This one hit the record with the 3rd response starting the wave of "me twos"..


now, you can see why your company is in financial trouble...

yeah - everybody is stuck in the 70's 80's and 90's beating the same old dead horse.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The previous generation of Silverado hybrid was not impressive either. It had 1-2 MPG gains over a standard 5.3 Silverado.

I don't mean to "bash" GM, but if they are going to build a hybrid, they need to do it right. That means significant mileage gains, reasonably good power, and a reasonable price tag. Ford and Toyota have done this, so it seems that GM should be able to as well. Half-assing vehicles like this is not going to help them turn around.

FWIW, I always thought the Accord Hybrid was really unimpressive too.



Maybe everybody has been asleep??

What about the 2 Mode Hybrid SUV's (that I actually am involved with) we've been building for a year! You know, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalades... These are real hybrids and actually get BETTER CITY MILAGE THAN A 4cyl CAMRY. And yes, the previous version of the Silverado/Sierra Hybrid (yes along with the Malibu, XS650) were poor attempts. But they were learning curves mind you. The new 2 mode system will be in full size trucks early next year. Already building them. Nobody has a fullsize SUV or Pickup Hybrid except GM.

The 2 mode's are VERY good at what they do. But, I don't expect many on this board to recognize a positive GM initiative. Bet if I swapped a Toyota badge on a Tahoe then it would be all the talk around here...

 

[Diesel_Clatter]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The previous generation of Silverado hybrid was not impressive either. It had 1-2 MPG gains over a standard 5.3 Silverado.

I don't mean to "bash" GM, but if they are going to build a hybrid, they need to do it right. That means significant mileage gains, reasonably good power, and a reasonable price tag. Ford and Toyota have done this, so it seems that GM should be able to as well. Half-assing vehicles like this is not going to help them turn around.

FWIW, I always thought the Accord Hybrid was really unimpressive too.



Maybe everybody has been asleep??

What about the 2 Mode Hybrid SUV's (that I actually am involved with) we've been building for a year! You know, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalades... These are real hybrids and actually get BETTER CITY MILAGE THAN A 4cyl CAMRY. And yes, the previous version of the Silverado/Sierra Hybrid (yes along with the Malibu, XS650) were poor attempts. But they were learning curves mind you. The new 2 mode system will be in full size trucks early next year. Already building them. Nobody has a fullsize SUV or Pickup Hybrid except GM.

The 2 mode's are VERY good at what they do. But, I don't expect many on this board to recognize a positive GM initiative. Bet if I swapped a Toyota badge on a Tahoe then it would be all the talk around here...


Is the two mode Hybrid GM's own technology or did they have to license somebody elses intellectual property?

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
***??

No matter HOW a thread starts 'round here it always becomes a GM bashing thread about this or that [censored] GM car once owned. This one hit the record with the 3rd response starting the wave of "me twos"..


Since your post was in response to an unfavorable comment about the Malibu Hybrid...

A lot of us have owned GM products and a lot of us still do. I'm not going to pretend that I have a good opinion of GM the company just because the chickens have come home to roost.

Here's a question for you.

The Malibu Hybrid is:

a. An insignificant hybrid primarily intended to get cars with the words Hybrid and GM on them on the road.

b. Another GM "beta" release intended to use the buying public as guinea pigs.

c. A world class hybrid that demonstrates that GM "gets it" and can compete with Toyota in hybrids.

Please explain your answer.



None of the above

But seriously. I recognize the 1/2ass attempt there. Actually, even the Saturn Vue was 1/2ass. But now the 2 mode Hybrid system is filtering down to the car line after proving itself in the full size SUV line. GM proved the system on trucks first (where it needed to be) and now it's coming to cars. You'll see. I've already seen a proto-type 2-mode Malibu and it is nice and beats the mpg of the gas only version by enough to make it worthwhile.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
***??

No matter HOW a thread starts 'round here it always becomes a GM bashing thread about this or that [censored] GM car once owned. This one hit the record with the 3rd response starting the wave of "me twos"..


now, you can see why your company is in financial trouble...

yeah - everybody is stuck in the 70's 80's and 90's beating the same old dead horse.







It's not that.

Some hardcore import fans still beat on the dead horse of reliability ("every GM goes to the junkyard before 100K miles"), but there are still legitimate reasons to be critical of some GM products.

When it comes to certain kinds of vehicles, in particular "green" cars, GM definitely has a tendency to disappoint. It's like they build them just for the sake of having something to throw a hybrid badge on. You can't tell me a 2 MPG improvement was the best GM could do.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The previous generation of Silverado hybrid was not impressive either. It had 1-2 MPG gains over a standard 5.3 Silverado.

I don't mean to "bash" GM, but if they are going to build a hybrid, they need to do it right. That means significant mileage gains, reasonably good power, and a reasonable price tag. Ford and Toyota have done this, so it seems that GM should be able to as well. Half-assing vehicles like this is not going to help them turn around.

FWIW, I always thought the Accord Hybrid was really unimpressive too.



Maybe everybody has been asleep??

What about the 2 Mode Hybrid SUV's (that I actually am involved with) we've been building for a year! You know, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalades... These are real hybrids and actually get BETTER CITY MILAGE THAN A 4cyl CAMRY. And yes, the previous version of the Silverado/Sierra Hybrid (yes along with the Malibu, XS650) were poor attempts. But they were learning curves mind you. The new 2 mode system will be in full size trucks early next year. Already building them. Nobody has a fullsize SUV or Pickup Hybrid except GM.

The 2 mode's are VERY good at what they do. But, I don't expect many on this board to recognize a positive GM initiative. Bet if I swapped a Toyota badge on a Tahoe then it would be all the talk around here...

The Tahoe hybrid has been the best attempt so far, but they are going to have to step it up with the cars. They need affordable cars with excellent fuel economy. Their survival depends on it.

BTW - I specifically mentioned the previous generation of Silverado hybrid to keep it from being confused with the new ones.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
The previous generation of Silverado hybrid was not impressive either. It had 1-2 MPG gains over a standard 5.3 Silverado.

I don't mean to "bash" GM, but if they are going to build a hybrid, they need to do it right. That means significant mileage gains, reasonably good power, and a reasonable price tag. Ford and Toyota have done this, so it seems that GM should be able to as well. Half-assing vehicles like this is not going to help them turn around.

FWIW, I always thought the Accord Hybrid was really unimpressive too.



Maybe everybody has been asleep??

What about the 2 Mode Hybrid SUV's (that I actually am involved with) we've been building for a year! You know, Tahoe/Yukon/Escalades... These are real hybrids and actually get BETTER CITY MILAGE THAN A 4cyl CAMRY. And yes, the previous version of the Silverado/Sierra Hybrid (yes along with the Malibu, XS650) were poor attempts. But they were learning curves mind you. The new 2 mode system will be in full size trucks early next year. Already building them. Nobody has a fullsize SUV or Pickup Hybrid except GM.

The 2 mode's are VERY good at what they do. But, I don't expect many on this board to recognize a positive GM initiative. Bet if I swapped a Toyota badge on a Tahoe then it would be all the talk around here...

The Tahoe hybrid has been the best attempt so far, but they are going to have to step it up with the cars. They need affordable cars with excellent fuel economy. Their survival depends on it.

BTW - I specifically mentioned the previous generation of Silverado hybrid to keep it from being confused with the new ones.




I know you stated the previous Hybrid models - re-read my post. I agreed with you there.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl

You can't tell me a 2 MPG improvement was the best GM could do.



I can't. We get 8 more MPG city on the large SUV's with the 2 mode Hybrid system. As for the Malibu, what did you expect? Now with the 2 mode you will see about a 5-7 mpg improvement City EPA. That is good considering you're talking a car that already gets pretty good milage. That's why you see more improvements with the big SUV than a small car - atleast for now until technology takes the next step.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Diesel_Clatter
Is the two mode Hybrid GM's own technology or did they have to license somebody elses intellectual property?



It is a joint venture between GM, Chrylser and BMW. With GM making the main components such as the transmission which houses all the electric motors and such. The 300V battery pack is actually made by Panasonic. GM got to use it first. It is really some great technology.

 

[scudpilot]

I've been finding all the info i can on the new Volt, and I have to say I'm real excited about it. I hope it is 100% perfected when they release it because I believe it will revolutionize the auto industry. I've been driving GM vehicles my whole life, and for the most part have had good luck. My dissapointment with GM is how many plants they have closed in the US. These jobs have been sent to Mexico and Canada(No Offense Meant to the Canadians).Just a decade or so ago GM employed 250,000 workers now they are down to 64,000. GM Management is to blame for their troubles, not the Union. Management has failed its workers while siphoning millions for itself. This is the norm it seems in all American industry!

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

I know you stated the previous Hybrid models - re-read my post. I agreed with you there.


I saw that, I just wanted it to be clear that I wasn't passing judgment on the two mode hybrids.

 

[ksJoe]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

yeah - everybody is stuck in the 70's 80's and 90's beating the same old dead horse.


Dead? When did this happen? I thought the horse got a bailout loan that would keep it going stumbling along another 2-3 months?

 

[ZZman]

Hybrid Tahoe gets 20 city and 22 Hwy. That is using Hybrid and cylinder deactivation technology. That is alot of complicated hardware. And 50 grand! Come on.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy

The 2 mode's are VERY good at what they do. But, I don't expect many on this board to recognize a positive GM initiative. Bet if I swapped a Toyota badge on a Tahoe then it would be all the talk around here...


I for one can recognize a positive GM initiative. My C6 Corvette is a great car, the only thing wrong with it is Chevy dealers.

If and when GM actually comes out with an effective Malibu hybrid you can expect to hear a lot of people make favorable comments about that. When they market a joke like the present Malibu hybrid, don't expect very many people to be impressed.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Hybrid Tahoe gets 20 city and 22 Hwy. That is using Hybrid and cylinder deactivation technology. That is alot of complicated hardware. And 50 grand! Come on.



So what's the problem? It comes fully loaded and costs the same as a regular non-hybrid LTZ tahoe. Oh and the 2WD gets 21 in the city. The Hybrid Escalade I am now driving has been returning 23.6mpg with a about a 70/30 mix of city and hwy use - that (to me) is amazing for a large truck with a 6.0L engine.

 

[GMBoy]

I for one can recognize a positive GM initiative. My C6 Corvette is a great car, the only thing wrong with it is Chevy dealers.

I hear ya. I never took my Corvette to the dealer unless it was for a high dollar warranty coverage issue. Fortunately I never had any issues with it. GM dealers are individually owned and operated so you never can tell what you're going to get. I also worked in Bowling Green for a short while during the C6 launch. Really a great car.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: ksJoe
Originally Posted By: GMBoy

yeah - everybody is stuck in the 70's 80's and 90's beating the same old dead horse.


Dead? When did this happen? I thought the horse got a bailout loan that would keep it going stumbling along another 2-3 months?



I was referring to the complaints of "I had a [censored] such and such GM car" rants that deals with cars in that time frame. Point is, GM cars (and Ford/Chrysler) are much better now from about 2000 on up with 2005 really showing momentum.