No, it is too late. I hope SS lasts until I die is all.
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Will The Economy Ever Recover?
- Thread starter The Critic
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Tax rates might have been higher, but there were deductions....
At any rate, any money you take out of the free economy hurts the overall economy. We need all the help we can get. It would be great if we didn't have the highest corporate tax rate IN THE WORLD. (Japan just lowered theirs.) You want manufacturing jobs? That's the place to start.
At any rate, any money you take out of the free economy hurts the overall economy. We need all the help we can get. It would be great if we didn't have the highest corporate tax rate IN THE WORLD. (Japan just lowered theirs.) You want manufacturing jobs? That's the place to start.
Every time you buy a gallon of gas you pay taxes. I wish they would triple the tax on those making over 250k NET. People forget it is NET income. Wish I could have made that kind of money. I can't afford a 50k SUV, but there are sure a lot them running around to golf courses around here in the middle of the weekday. Tax break money at work, improving lives of the most pampered.
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Now how exactly would you propose to keep (have kept) those jobs? ... Would you some how penalize "big {insert name}" for seeking to maximize profits?
That's not my job.
That's the job that a corporate executive has that should justify his exorbitant salary.
Look, I understand that if I eliminate salaries in the USA and send a smaller portion overseas, that portion is gone. That money does not come back to me to purchase my goods and/or services here.
It's cyclical. The money leaves and it doesn't come back. It effects the grocer, the real estate agent, the sweet little Korean lady who runs the donut shop....etc.... I know this and I dropped out of college. What's the executive level manager with the obscene salary's excuse?
Now how exactly would you propose to keep (have kept) those jobs? ... Would you some how penalize "big {insert name}" for seeking to maximize profits?
That's not my job.
That's the job that a corporate executive has that should justify his exorbitant salary.
Look, I understand that if I eliminate salaries in the USA and send a smaller portion overseas, that portion is gone. That money does not come back to me to purchase my goods and/or services here.
It's cyclical. The money leaves and it doesn't come back. It effects the grocer, the real estate agent, the sweet little Korean lady who runs the donut shop....etc.... I know this and I dropped out of college. What's the executive level manager with the obscene salary's excuse?
Less people putting money into the pot and more people taking money out of the pot. You better have some cash saved in 25-30 years cause Social Security will not be around.
The economy won't fully recover and unemployment will remain above 10%.
Why ?
Theres just simply waaaaaaaay more people entering the workfroce / looking for a job than people who retire and never work another day in their life. Many jobs that are created pay poverty wages.
The economy won't fully recover and unemployment will remain above 10%.
Why ?
Theres just simply waaaaaaaay more people entering the workfroce / looking for a job than people who retire and never work another day in their life. Many jobs that are created pay poverty wages.
"will it ever?" Really? Hyberbole, I assume? Yes, it certainly will recover, at some point. I often dislike FOX's questions like this, which they do often, because they make it sound like it will "never" recover. "Never" is a really long time. You think there will be a BITOG post, 175 years from now, saying WOW! We never recovered from that 2007/2008 financial collapse did we? I think not. And yes, *sigh* I really am an economist. Don't shoot me!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Less people putting money into the pot and more people taking money out of the pot. You better have some cash saved in 25-30 years cause Social Security will not be around.
The economy won't fully recover and unemployment will remain above 10%.
Why ?
Theres just simply waaaaaaaay more people entering the workfroce / looking for a job than people who retire and never work another day in their life. Many jobs that are created pay poverty wages.
Wages aside, if this were the case, SS would not have an issue.
It isn't, and that's why we ignore illegal immigration, and slowly turn them into taxpayers.
Less people putting money into the pot and more people taking money out of the pot. You better have some cash saved in 25-30 years cause Social Security will not be around.
The economy won't fully recover and unemployment will remain above 10%.
Why ?
Theres just simply waaaaaaaay more people entering the workfroce / looking for a job than people who retire and never work another day in their life. Many jobs that are created pay poverty wages.
Wages aside, if this were the case, SS would not have an issue.
It isn't, and that's why we ignore illegal immigration, and slowly turn them into taxpayers.
My angle has been mused before but bears repeating.
What are we, as consumers, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT? The economy grows when people blow their "extra" non-susbsitence income on cool new trinkets and services.
Cars made in 2000-2010 are no more exciting for me than those from 1990-2000. Give me fuel injection, independent rear suspension, cheap 14 inch tires, etc.
Music is no higher fidelity than the CD from 1985. In fact the compression of iTunes etc has made the 44.1khz signal even worse to the ears.
My newest computer CPU speed is lower than my 2003 black friday emachines. Ok there are dual cores and better instruction handling so it's a little "faster" but it can't DO any more... just a little less aggravating.
Am on my 3rd cellphone, was late to that party. I talk and text on it. $5/month.
Used to be able to fly to Europe at supersonic speeds. Concorde grounded now.
Don't have cable TV. Might get it if I could get 2 or 3 channels a la carte. Free off the air digital HDTV looks nice and internet video fills the void.
Internet has been around me for 16 years now. My use of it (shopping etc) hasn't changed much since y2k though.
As for the country, we are in a la-la land about taboo subjects: expensive medicine, expensive retirees, expensive schools. Just keep throwing money at those three. The US invents all kinds of awesome medical breakthroughs that we then charge ourselves way more to access than we charge any other country in the world.
My Grandpa started my kid a $500 college 529 plan. This is another open stock account next to my wife and my IRA, her 401k, used to have a HSA... all these different accounts are all getting fees paid to their administrators and it's ridiculous! This paper tiger of complexity is surely to prop up all the paper pushers on wall street. Seriously, how many tax deferred accounts does a person need?
What are we, as consumers, ACTUALLY EXCITED ABOUT? The economy grows when people blow their "extra" non-susbsitence income on cool new trinkets and services.
Cars made in 2000-2010 are no more exciting for me than those from 1990-2000. Give me fuel injection, independent rear suspension, cheap 14 inch tires, etc.
Music is no higher fidelity than the CD from 1985. In fact the compression of iTunes etc has made the 44.1khz signal even worse to the ears.
My newest computer CPU speed is lower than my 2003 black friday emachines. Ok there are dual cores and better instruction handling so it's a little "faster" but it can't DO any more... just a little less aggravating.
Am on my 3rd cellphone, was late to that party. I talk and text on it. $5/month.
Used to be able to fly to Europe at supersonic speeds. Concorde grounded now.
Don't have cable TV. Might get it if I could get 2 or 3 channels a la carte. Free off the air digital HDTV looks nice and internet video fills the void.
Internet has been around me for 16 years now. My use of it (shopping etc) hasn't changed much since y2k though.
As for the country, we are in a la-la land about taboo subjects: expensive medicine, expensive retirees, expensive schools. Just keep throwing money at those three. The US invents all kinds of awesome medical breakthroughs that we then charge ourselves way more to access than we charge any other country in the world.
My Grandpa started my kid a $500 college 529 plan. This is another open stock account next to my wife and my IRA, her 401k, used to have a HSA... all these different accounts are all getting fees paid to their administrators and it's ridiculous! This paper tiger of complexity is surely to prop up all the paper pushers on wall street. Seriously, how many tax deferred accounts does a person need?
Agreed!
Of course there will be a recovery.
The last really deep recession we had was thirty years ago.
Things were grim in the early 'eighties, but the economy came back, and times were pretty good from the mid 'eighties until late 2008.
The causes of our current economic malaise (remember the Jimmy Carter Speech?) were the usual asset price inflation, caused by the usual easy credit at the end of an expansion, as well as a sharp inflation of commodities prices across the board, not just oil.
The job losses in all sectors are a consquence, not a cause, as is the federal budget deficit. Lower personal earnings plus lower corporate earnings equal lower tax take, and a higher current budget deficit. It does not help the federal budget that the feds have had to bail out the states as well as their unemployment systems.
Finally, the Great Depression was as much a consequence of faulty management by the Fed as anything else. The Fed accomodated the contraction of economic activity by shrinking the money supply. The result was deflation, never a good thing.
I stand to be corrected by the real economist to whom I reply.
Of course there will be a recovery.
The last really deep recession we had was thirty years ago.
Things were grim in the early 'eighties, but the economy came back, and times were pretty good from the mid 'eighties until late 2008.
The causes of our current economic malaise (remember the Jimmy Carter Speech?) were the usual asset price inflation, caused by the usual easy credit at the end of an expansion, as well as a sharp inflation of commodities prices across the board, not just oil.
The job losses in all sectors are a consquence, not a cause, as is the federal budget deficit. Lower personal earnings plus lower corporate earnings equal lower tax take, and a higher current budget deficit. It does not help the federal budget that the feds have had to bail out the states as well as their unemployment systems.
Finally, the Great Depression was as much a consequence of faulty management by the Fed as anything else. The Fed accomodated the contraction of economic activity by shrinking the money supply. The result was deflation, never a good thing.
I stand to be corrected by the real economist to whom I reply.
Originally Posted By: Camu Mahubah
The next economy will have brass as currency. And don't forget the twinkies and spam! Both of which will be viable currency.
Thank you.....first good laugh I've had today.....
Twinkies and Spam......I'm still laughing.
I fear for future generations. The fixed expenses of our "keepers" combined with all the new debt being sold overseas and added through legislation....I just cant see how the common worker/taxpayer of the future will be able to carry that load. The age ratios are all wrong, the birth rate is all wrong....we need to start importing taxpayers and stop exporting good paying jobs.
The next economy will have brass as currency. And don't forget the twinkies and spam! Both of which will be viable currency.
Thank you.....first good laugh I've had today.....
Twinkies and Spam......I'm still laughing.
I fear for future generations. The fixed expenses of our "keepers" combined with all the new debt being sold overseas and added through legislation....I just cant see how the common worker/taxpayer of the future will be able to carry that load. The age ratios are all wrong, the birth rate is all wrong....we need to start importing taxpayers and stop exporting good paying jobs.
50% of all households get some form of support from the government.
Say no more. We don't add value, we don't recover or grow.
Stranglehold baby.
Say no more. We don't add value, we don't recover or grow.
Stranglehold baby.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
50% of all households get some form of support from the government.
Is that 50% a fact...... or just a guess ?
Times are gonna get very tuff in the very near future for lots of people especially for those in certain parts of the USA.
50% of all households get some form of support from the government.
Is that 50% a fact...... or just a guess ?
Times are gonna get very tuff in the very near future for lots of people especially for those in certain parts of the USA.
I dont think rich are the problem, It seems to be a diversion to apply class envy and blame the rich and expect them to pay more taxs, but all they will do is pick up their riches and move else where on the planet. The rich are the last ones that you want to drive off(I am in no way rich). I am beginning to think that the only end may be a big war, people in this country have become so dazzled, totally unrealistic, they worry about whales and manatees, more than whether there are jobs or production, or the country. People are clueless, and all that oil and precious resources we preserve in Alaska, you think no one will ever want that. A big war may be the only thing to straighten this country out, by big war, I dont mean the current skirmish in the middle east. Right now Americans consider suffering not haveing cell phone service or missing a epidsode of dancing with the stars.
I see the glass as half empty. The economy will recover and may somewhat stabilize, but at a much lower standard of living for what's left of the middle class. I think that today's generation will struggle to achieve the standard of living the baby boomers enjoyed as a whole.
The cycles that occurred the past 120 years won't repeat because of the ever increasing global changes in everything. We are entering a new and very different phase of economic development.
Eventually all things merge into one, and the half full glass of water runs through it....something to that effect. Whoa, full of too much [censored] tonight, aren't I?
The cycles that occurred the past 120 years won't repeat because of the ever increasing global changes in everything. We are entering a new and very different phase of economic development.
Eventually all things merge into one, and the half full glass of water runs through it....something to that effect. Whoa, full of too much [censored] tonight, aren't I?
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I see the glass as half empty. The economy will recover and may somewhat stabilize, but at a much lower standard of living for what's left of the middle class. I think that today's generation will struggle to achieve the standard of living the baby boomers enjoyed as a whole.
The cycles that occurred the past 120 years won't repeat because of the ever increasing global changes in everything. We are entering a new and very different phase of economic development.
Eventually all things merge into one, and the half full glass of water runs through it....something to that effect. Whoa, full of too much [censored] tonight, aren't I?
I agree entirely with that. Globalism means the haves will have less and the have nots will have more.
The difference this time is that we have technology. Even if you're well below middle class and only making 12 bucks an hour in some domestic [censored] service job and live paycheck to paycheck, you'll still have cable TV most likely, a cell phone, heat, and a roof over your head, so it won't feel as bad as the great depression. Heck, someone living like that probably has a higher standard of living then well off people a few centuries ago.
I see the glass as half empty. The economy will recover and may somewhat stabilize, but at a much lower standard of living for what's left of the middle class. I think that today's generation will struggle to achieve the standard of living the baby boomers enjoyed as a whole.
The cycles that occurred the past 120 years won't repeat because of the ever increasing global changes in everything. We are entering a new and very different phase of economic development.
Eventually all things merge into one, and the half full glass of water runs through it....something to that effect. Whoa, full of too much [censored] tonight, aren't I?
I agree entirely with that. Globalism means the haves will have less and the have nots will have more.
The difference this time is that we have technology. Even if you're well below middle class and only making 12 bucks an hour in some domestic [censored] service job and live paycheck to paycheck, you'll still have cable TV most likely, a cell phone, heat, and a roof over your head, so it won't feel as bad as the great depression. Heck, someone living like that probably has a higher standard of living then well off people a few centuries ago.
I always find it interesting that people want tariffs or "redistribution of wealth". They actually think you can tax your way to prosperity. It's hilarious.
When countries doing bad things, what do we do? Impose an embargo. Protectionist policies are a self imposed embargo.
As for resources, the US had ~4 million people in 1790 and now has 310 million with EVERYONE having a MUCH greater standard of living. And yet people still spout the proven false Ehrlich pap.
Amazing.
In 10 years, the debt payment on just the INTEREST will exceed what we spend on the entire military budget. A few years after that, Social Security and Medicare will eat up the entire budget. There isn't enough money in the WORLD to pay the promises we have made on just those 2 welfare programs. This has future generations being born into indentured servitude to the US government.
The government has simply made many times more promises than there is money to pay them. Most the rest of the world has seen this.
Unless something big changes in a fairly short amount of time, the US is in for very bad times ahead and any recovery will be fleeting.
When countries doing bad things, what do we do? Impose an embargo. Protectionist policies are a self imposed embargo.
As for resources, the US had ~4 million people in 1790 and now has 310 million with EVERYONE having a MUCH greater standard of living. And yet people still spout the proven false Ehrlich pap.
Amazing.
In 10 years, the debt payment on just the INTEREST will exceed what we spend on the entire military budget. A few years after that, Social Security and Medicare will eat up the entire budget. There isn't enough money in the WORLD to pay the promises we have made on just those 2 welfare programs. This has future generations being born into indentured servitude to the US government.
The government has simply made many times more promises than there is money to pay them. Most the rest of the world has seen this.
Unless something big changes in a fairly short amount of time, the US is in for very bad times ahead and any recovery will be fleeting.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
In 10 years, the debt payment on just the INTEREST will exceed what we spend on the entire military budget. A few years after that, Social Security and Medicare will eat up the entire budget. There isn't enough money in the WORLD to pay the promises we have made on just those 2 welfare programs. This has future generations being born into indentured servitude to the US government.
What is money? A measure of exchange for goods and services.
If there are tons of retirees "overburdening" the SS system, there will be plenty of employment for the working, under 65 class just servicing all the retirees. There is NO WAY to save present day labor for the future, no way that I could mow a geezers lawn and have my own lawn mowed in 50 years. We just have to count on society/ the following generations to allocate 15% of their labor to servicing us when we retire.
SS reflects this, money goes out of my paycheck in a proportion that as a society we figure the able bodies should be helping the elderly. That same week a bus pulls into walmart and they're all shopping because their checks just came in. No shenanigans like stock investments etc are going to work when everybody gets old at the same time and starts retiring and pulling out of the market!
If one likes flat income taxes, and I kinda sorta do, some would say "regressive", the SS inputs are perfect. Sure they get misappropriated and spent on general stuff, via the IOUs the gov't writes themselves. So if someone is ranting about the Earned Income tax credit... remember... they paid into Social Security, and there are way fewer loopholes with that than the income taxes on your 1040.
In 10 years, the debt payment on just the INTEREST will exceed what we spend on the entire military budget. A few years after that, Social Security and Medicare will eat up the entire budget. There isn't enough money in the WORLD to pay the promises we have made on just those 2 welfare programs. This has future generations being born into indentured servitude to the US government.
What is money? A measure of exchange for goods and services.
If there are tons of retirees "overburdening" the SS system, there will be plenty of employment for the working, under 65 class just servicing all the retirees. There is NO WAY to save present day labor for the future, no way that I could mow a geezers lawn and have my own lawn mowed in 50 years. We just have to count on society/ the following generations to allocate 15% of their labor to servicing us when we retire.
SS reflects this, money goes out of my paycheck in a proportion that as a society we figure the able bodies should be helping the elderly. That same week a bus pulls into walmart and they're all shopping because their checks just came in. No shenanigans like stock investments etc are going to work when everybody gets old at the same time and starts retiring and pulling out of the market!
If one likes flat income taxes, and I kinda sorta do, some would say "regressive", the SS inputs are perfect. Sure they get misappropriated and spent on general stuff, via the IOUs the gov't writes themselves. So if someone is ranting about the Earned Income tax credit... remember... they paid into Social Security, and there are way fewer loopholes with that than the income taxes on your 1040.
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No shenanigans
SS is the ultimate scam! The Supreme Court has ruled that the money goes into the general fund and does NOT need to be spent on what it says on your paycheck and that it is a WELFARE program. There is NO SS trust fund other than in name only. It has NEVER existed.
You are being defrauded by National Government every time you get a paycheck!
The Court has also ruled that you have no contractual claim to the money so it can be denied to you at any time! If you were able to keep your own money, then you could control it and be able to pass it on to your errs. Nothing doing with the SS scam.
No shenanigans
SS is the ultimate scam! The Supreme Court has ruled that the money goes into the general fund and does NOT need to be spent on what it says on your paycheck and that it is a WELFARE program. There is NO SS trust fund other than in name only. It has NEVER existed.
You are being defrauded by National Government every time you get a paycheck!
The Court has also ruled that you have no contractual claim to the money so it can be denied to you at any time! If you were able to keep your own money, then you could control it and be able to pass it on to your errs. Nothing doing with the SS scam.
You have to answer the question: We are entitled to higher wages and more jobs in this country than in third world countries because ____?
Some plausible answer might include:
- We work harder and more efficiently
- Better trained and educated
- Lower cost of otherwise doing business (taxes, security)
- Better infrastructure and reliable utilities
- More freedom means we can attract and retain the brightest and best.
- More predictable business climate and less risk that things will be taken away from the owner of the facilities.
Some plausible answer might include:
- We work harder and more efficiently
- Better trained and educated
- Lower cost of otherwise doing business (taxes, security)
- Better infrastructure and reliable utilities
- More freedom means we can attract and retain the brightest and best.
- More predictable business climate and less risk that things will be taken away from the owner of the facilities.
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