Wide snow tires

[Lead Shoes]

I drive an car with the clearance the length of my key (2 3/4 inches) from the oil pan to the ground and I'm not worried one bit about snow driving, I'll plow my way, now I might have issues seeing over snow banks though.... lol.

Can you use the snow tires from the 328i on the M5 if you get some cheap steel rims?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Driving on snow with narrow tires usually means it can depress a few inches through soft snow and put more force per square inch onto the snow/tarmac, since you're driving on paved roads regardless. Unlike off-road terrain you know if you push down deep enough you'll be putting weight onto snow supported by asphalt, and the more you can compress that the harder it becomes and the easier to bite into it it becomes. Undoubtedly, driving on very deep, loose snow you would want wide tires, to avoid sinking to the chassis in it, but if that happens on surface streets, consider staying home...its likely nobody will make it to work anyhow without a dogsled if that is happening.


Just wanted to mention that two tires of the same diameter, one wide - one narrow, would still exert the same force on the ground (snow, pavement, etc). The narrow tire would have a long narrow patch and the wide tire would have a wide, thin patch.

 

[fdcg27]

It can't cost that much to fix the little BMW.
One winter will likely put some serious rust on that M5, based upon what you've posted before of the start of rust on it.
Spraying it at this point in its life won't help.
I'd spend the $$ to fix the 328i and put the M5 in your newly clear garage for the winter.
You're either going to fix the 328i at some point or sell it at a loss.
Why not fix it now?
Or sell it now, take the loss and buy a good used Subie for winter?
Any running Subaru will make any RWD BMW look like a joke in the snow.
OTOH, you could fix the 328i.
You could put winters on it and drive it and let the wife use the big hog Ford.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


This isn't my choice, really. I don't have the time to fix the 328i right now, I'm far too busy with work. And I'm not paying to have it fixed because the car isn't worth enough to me to bother.


I cant imagine snow tires were cheap. Plus wheels and mounting, and the time... wow, Im sure youve spent a thousand dollars.

His tires alone are $1000+, and probably even more in Canada.

I, too, would rather put that money towards fixing the 3-series instead.

Overk1ll, what would it cost to have someone repair it?

The 3-series would make for a much better winter car. The problem with your M5 will be that the tires will be struggling to get good grip, your DSC will be working overtime, and you'll be getting nowhere. Taking off will be slow and painful. And if you turn off DSC (which I advise against), you'll just be spinning one place.

 

[Nederlander75]

Remember that BStones have a smaller contact patch so you are getting a little bit narrow tire than you might think. I have them on my RX8 though much smaller at 225 (but much lighter car too) and its rock solid. My opinion is as long as you arent out in anything over 6" in depth you should be fine. The LM 60s really are amazing.

 

[IndyIan]

I think you'll be OK with the wide winter tires if your careful on the highway. You'll be more prone to loosing good contact in slush or packed snow at elevated speeds, plus, I imagine the alignment has camber and toe settings that aren't great for winter either. But for just driving around town the car shouldn't be hopeless, 50/50 weight distribution does help in the snow too!
I've been in a couple fwd cars with wide snow tires for their weight and they do surprise me how well they still work, but I'd rather have narrower ones given the option.
I'd vote for cancelling the tire order if that still an option, and getting a winter beater to save the M5 from the salt.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: Zaedock
Just wanted to mention that two tires of the same diameter, one wide - one narrow, would still exert the same force on the ground (snow, pavement, etc). The narrow tire would have a long narrow patch and the wide tire would have a wide, thin patch.


At speed, a narrow tire will experience less snow with its forward facing area to crush under a "snowplow" like effect. Wide tires will collect more snow and tend to try to float over it. In many ways you're correct though.

I just wanted to reinforce though that your tire will exert more force down on snow (technically, the same force on less snow) when narrower.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
Why does it cost so much for her on your insurance?


Because she only has her G2 and she plowed into a van the first day we had ice last year.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


This isn't my choice, really. I don't have the time to fix the 328i right now, I'm far too busy with work. And I'm not paying to have it fixed because the car isn't worth enough to me to bother.


I cant imagine snow tires were cheap. Plus wheels and mounting, and the time... wow, Im sure youve spent a thousand dollars.

How much could the repair possibly be? The M5 will be a compromise in the snow, more so than the 328 IMO, even if the electonics get it through. But what bothers me more is the salt/sand/cinder damage to the car.

You could do a lot of repairs for the cost of the snow tires. An 00 328i is in no way worthless. and will be worth a lot more repaired.


They were a hair over 1,000 bucks.

The problem with the 328i is that I don't actually know what the issue is. It could just be it is low on fluid. But there isn't an easy way to check that doesn't involve a hoist.

And if it isn't the fluid, then it probably needs at bare minimum a shift solenoid, at most, a new transmission.

I'm concerned about the elements as well. Which is why I'll have the living Krown Krowned out of it

It'll be fine I'm sure.

The problem here is the combination of the unknown with the 328 and the time required to potentially fix it. If it needs a transmission, I'm not paying a shop to do it. And I'm sure as heck not changing a transmission in my driveway with the ambient temps we have right now.

It was 0C this morning. It is getting cold out, I needed to make a decision as to what was the easiest way for me to ensure my mobility this winter, and I've done that.

If the weather is too bad, my wife won't want to drive in it anyway, so deep snow really shouldn't be an issue. I'd likely have the Expedition if that's the case, because she'd be afraid to drive it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
My Corvette has 275/40-18 back tires and 245/45-17 front tires (roughly the same as your M5). Even with snow tires, the 3 inch ground clearance does the car in. You turn into a snow plow in even light snow (over 3 inches).

I can't believe your M5 has much more than 5 inches ground clearance? That's not very heavy snow in Canada !


Yeah, it probably has roughly 6" of ground clearance. It isn't too bad. As I said, my sister had no issue with her 330i last year and it is lower than my car.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
My wife bought me a winter driving course in NH last winter. A porsche there did reasonably well on wide tires (I don't recall the size, but they appeared wider than the 225mm tires I was rocking.) He was, however, the only person on the course who spun out...twice, and without really driving aggressively. Conversely, I was able to maintain traction, even while in boost (dedicated winter setup + AWD.)

For reference, I swapped out my 245/40R18 rims/tires with a dedicated 225/45R17 snow setup. The AS tires I ran on the stock rims the previous winter (really bad winter with a lot of snow and ice) were down right dangerous in comparison to the snow tires - the difference was pretty amazing, actually.

I was able to find the one-season-old package on one the Subaru forums last Fall for $450, picked up. I'd suggest you figure out what wheel size and offset will clear your brakes and find something narrower and with more side wall.



Not really an option at this point, since I bought the 275's. I'm more concerned about what I'm in for and hoping for some input from people who had used this size in a snow tire before.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig
For what you probably spent on those winter tires, you could have just bought a $500 car to drive in the winter.. I probably would have.


No, because adding another car to the policy is several thousand dollars (because my wife has to be covered on it). Remember, I paid $500.00 for the Focus. I seriously regret getting rid of that car, it was reliable and good on fuel. It also had four snow tires and was very capable. I don't regret getting the 328, but I do regret not getting it sorted out during the summer, whereas now, that option doesn't really exist.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Brenden
I drive an car with the clearance the length of my key (2 3/4 inches) from the oil pan to the ground and I'm not worried one bit about snow driving, I'll plow my way, now I might have issues seeing over snow banks though.... lol.

Can you use the snow tires from the 328i on the M5 if you get some cheap steel rims?


I think the smallest I can go that will still clear the brakes are a 17. The 328 has 16's on it.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Nederlander75
Remember that BStones have a smaller contact patch so you are getting a little bit narrow tire than you might think. I have them on my RX8 though much smaller at 225 (but much lighter car too) and its rock solid. My opinion is as long as you arent out in anything over 6" in depth you should be fine. The LM 60s really are amazing.


This is the impression I've gotten from Andrew. That they are actually quite good in snow. He's running the same width, so if they were an actual PROBLEM, I'm sure he would have let me know.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
It can't cost that much to fix the little BMW.
One winter will likely put some serious rust on that M5, based upon what you've posted before of the start of rust on it.
Spraying it at this point in its life won't help.
I'd spend the $$ to fix the 328i and put the M5 in your newly clear garage for the winter.
You're either going to fix the 328i at some point or sell it at a loss.
Why not fix it now?
Or sell it now, take the loss and buy a good used Subie for winter?
Any running Subaru will make any RWD BMW look like a joke in the snow.
OTOH, you could fix the 328i.
You could put winters on it and drive it and let the wife use the big hog Ford.


I doubt it will be any worse than it is. The Krown will prevent it. The rust on the car is on the bottom of the passenger side doors. Doors can be replaced. There is none on the body.

There is a frustration aspect to this as well. I've replaced the throttle body, right rear wheel speed sensor, valve cover gasket, AND it still needs tires (the 328 does NOT have snow tires on it, I would be buying snow tires regardless here). On top of that, it still has this transmission issue to sort out and I have no idea how that would play out expense-wise as this point, nor the time involved. I feel like the 328 is a gamble as to how expensive (or not) this is going to be, whereas with my car, it is slap the tires on it and drive on. No guessing.

 

[Oldswagon]

I have have driven several RWD cars with low profile hi-po snows, but only in the 235 width range and maybe 250 hp. They are definitely not as good as narrower less performance oriented snows. I think you'll manage fine, but it won't be the best performing car in the snow, especially on the days when the plows haven't hit the streets after a big snow fall. I am sure on your average day you'll be fine. I mean most of the winter days in Ontario the roads aren't that bad.

In my poorer days I used to be able to get by with some pretty [censored] all seasons with a lot of different RWD cars with open diffs and I always made out okay.

Why not use the Town Car and save the Bimmer? My old '88 Grand Marquis (with posi) was good in the snow with just all-seasons.

As for insurance costs in Canada, not everyone pays those rates. My wife and I pay about 75% less than what the OP posted for three vehicles with full coverage.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Oldswagon
I have have driven several RWD cars with low profile hi-po snows, but only in the 235 width range and maybe 250 hp. They are definitely not as good as narrower less performance oriented snows. I think you'll manage fine, but it won't be the best performing car in the snow, especially on the days when the plows haven't hit the streets after a big snow fall. I am sure on your average day you'll be fine. I mean most of the winter days in Ontario the roads aren't that bad.

In my poorer days I used to be able to get by with some pretty [censored] all seasons with a lot of different RWD cars with open diffs and I always made out okay.

Why not use the Town Car and save the Bimmer? My old '88 Grand Marquis (with posi) was good in the snow with just all-seasons.

As for insurance costs in Canada, not everyone pays those rates. My wife and I pay about 75% less than what the OP posted for three vehicles with full coverage.


My rates were great until I had to add my wife. Then they got [censored].

The Lincoln is in storage. But it would need tires too, LOL

 

[stockrex]

when bought my diesel truck, I was going to get the dually, then had a vision of floating on 16 inches of fresh pack snow on the hwy and crying like a 2 year old.
I ended up buying a 3/4 ton single rear wheel cuz of snow traction.

wide is NOT better for snow!

Originally Posted By: JC1
Here's some info from motor trend.

http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_9903_tire_myths_and_reality/viewall.html

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.
Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.


I really like the M5. I would be keeping it off the snowy roads and enjoying it for the next 20 years.

Regards, JC.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: stockrex
when bought my diesel truck, I was going to get the dually, then had a vision of floating on 16 inches of fresh pack snow on the hwy and crying like a 2 year old.
I ended up buying a 3/4 ton single rear wheel cuz of snow traction.

wide is NOT better for snow!

Originally Posted By: JC1
Here's some info from motor trend.

http://www.motortrend.com/womt/112_9903_tire_myths_and_reality/viewall.html

Myth: Wide tires provide better traction under all weather conditions. In fact, putting oversize snow tires on a car delivers better snow traction.
Fact: The opposite is actually true. Wide tires tend to "float" on deep snow, and the tread lugs never have a chance to "dig" through to the road surface to gain traction. Narrow tires are a better option in deep snow. The tire acts similarly to a knife cutting through butter; the blade works best when using the narrow edge to push through the butter rather than the wide flat side of the blade.


I really like the M5. I would be keeping it off the snowy roads and enjoying it for the next 20 years.

Regards, JC.


Agreed, I've heard DRW trucks are awful in snow.

That being said, the Expedition has 265's on it and is darn good. But it is 6,000lbs.

As I said, I have a friend with the same car, same tires, and he said it is excellent. I'm just trying to get a handle on whether "excellent" means the same to him as it does to me, LOL! Guess I'll find out.......

 

[rslifkin]

Honestly, I like the feel of wide tires in the snow. They break free and grab more progressively, and they're more stable on snowy highways, better in deep snow (car doesn't sink in as much, so ground clearance is less of an issue), etc.

The one time where I've found the wide tires absolutely suck is getting moving from a stop in slush (stopping/turning has been less of an issue), where the narrow tires will sink through it to pavement more easily.

Keep in mind, this is mostly from experience on the Jeep, where I ran 245 A/Ts for a while, and am now on softer 255 A/Ts (stock is 225). Also, I tend to stay in 2wd in the snow as much as possible, and I've found the RWD / LSD / torquey V8 thing quite manageable, even in 6" of icy, snowy mess (and that wasn't on real snow tires either, they were fairly hard compound A/Ts). Plus, you have a little more control of power application/smoothness with the manual than I do with my shift-kitted, hard shifting (likes to break the tires loose on slick surfaces on the 1-2 shift) slush-o-matic.

I'd say your combo should be pretty capable in the snow, it just might not be super-easy to drive in the snow. Then again, you do have pretty good traction control, which might help you out a little, compared to my complete lack of traction control or anything more than ABS.

Just don't take my words as gospel, considering while most people would advocate taking off in a higher gear for less torque (to make it harder to spin the tires) in the snow, a Jeep guy (me included) would want a lower gear for more control.

In addition, as far as rust, if it's well oiled up anywhere rust is likely to form, and you wash it obsessively (at least once a week when the roads are salty), it should hold up fine. The unibody on that is probably better galvanized than the one on my Jeep, which has the same minimal surface rust on the inside of the driver's door bottom and hood lip that it had 3 years ago when I bought it (hasn't gotten any worse), and it's seen 1.5 Rochester winters since then (and I'll be prepping it for another this week).