Why so many sub-2 liter cars with CVTs?
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Originally Posted by jeepman3071
No wonder people are constantly distracted while driving. Everything is so boring and numb to drive.
+1 That's why I keep my 300ZX around. 29 years old and a lot of fun to drive. It guarantees I get to work with a smile on my face. Also, I'm still amazed at the build quality on it compared to everything else I maintain and service for myself and family/friends.
No wonder people are constantly distracted while driving. Everything is so boring and numb to drive.
+1 That's why I keep my 300ZX around. 29 years old and a lot of fun to drive. It guarantees I get to work with a smile on my face. Also, I'm still amazed at the build quality on it compared to everything else I maintain and service for myself and family/friends.
Originally Posted by supton
I dunno, most consumers just plain don't care
+1
As long as most cars are able to connect seamlessly to the owners' smart devices, who really cares about the rest?!
Recently I read a review about a VW Jetta/Passat/Ford something or other.
The reviewer said the only reason they upgraded from their 2011 to the 2016, was for the smart phone connectivity. The 2011 was perfectly fine mind you and was only at the dealer for a regular servicing.
Once that feature started to fail/act up (and the dealer wasn't able to satisfy the customers issues regarding it), the owner felt ripped off and was strongly against the car (and manufacturer) as a whole.
This is our new reality. This is what determines what will sell/what customers want and what manufacturers will supply.
I dunno, most consumers just plain don't care
+1
As long as most cars are able to connect seamlessly to the owners' smart devices, who really cares about the rest?!
Recently I read a review about a VW Jetta/Passat/Ford something or other.
The reviewer said the only reason they upgraded from their 2011 to the 2016, was for the smart phone connectivity. The 2011 was perfectly fine mind you and was only at the dealer for a regular servicing.
Once that feature started to fail/act up (and the dealer wasn't able to satisfy the customers issues regarding it), the owner felt ripped off and was strongly against the car (and manufacturer) as a whole.
This is our new reality. This is what determines what will sell/what customers want and what manufacturers will supply.
Originally Posted by racin4ds
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Most people don't have your bank roll for such a signature full of fine autos!
Well, I just turned 66, saved and invested my pay, and got lucky in Silicon Valley, the land of opportunity.
It wasn't always this way. I have been in AA for 32 years.I know the other side of life.
But I can tell you, if you drive a Model 3, you will be hooked. Amazing car.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Most people don't have your bank roll for such a signature full of fine autos!
Well, I just turned 66, saved and invested my pay, and got lucky in Silicon Valley, the land of opportunity.
It wasn't always this way. I have been in AA for 32 years.I know the other side of life.
But I can tell you, if you drive a Model 3, you will be hooked. Amazing car.
Better fuel economy (possibly lower cost) I would suspect. The engine's power band seems to be well suited to how fast the vehicle is going. Our Rogue Sport is very responsive and has no problem at all getting up to speed. (It does not lung the engine as does the Golf 2.5L w/the Aisin 6-sp.) I prefer the CVT. (7 speed.) I believe w/timely service this newest Nissan Jatco transmission will last a long, long time. (It even has a transmission cartridge filter that is very easy to change out which is not in the pan but on the outside of the transmission!) 27mpg around town in the Rogue Sport is outstanding considering it's a small SUV.
Sub 2l and turbo charged can't be that bad with a CVT? I'm never bored driving our slow Outback, in manual mode you can click off a couple downshifts for a pass or corner entry, and it will hold the gear until I shift again. The rest of the time its fun to play the mileage game where the CVT shines.
To be honest I think the bigger crime against driving enjoyment is the prevalence of low effort, low feed back steering. Most cars these days have reasonably tuned suspension and are willing to rotate but you can't feel whats going on which ruins it.
To be honest I think the bigger crime against driving enjoyment is the prevalence of low effort, low feed back steering. Most cars these days have reasonably tuned suspension and are willing to rotate but you can't feel whats going on which ruins it.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Some people like quality vehicles from reputable manufacturers that will be around for a while and have been around for a while and have an actual dealer network maybe in a town near you, and don't require overnight "fuel ups" ever few hundred miles or a specialized "gas station" that you get to hang out at every few hours for a few hours, of your road trip.
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Some people like quality vehicles from reputable manufacturers that will be around for a while and have been around for a while and have an actual dealer network maybe in a town near you, and don't require overnight "fuel ups" ever few hundred miles or a specialized "gas station" that you get to hang out at every few hours for a few hours, of your road trip.
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by StevieC
Friends of ours could care less what's under the hood so long as it has enough power to pass on the highway, enough room for them and the family, and the warranty lasts until the end of the payments.
They also take it to the dealer for everything.
When payments are done it gets traded in and a new vehicle starts... Perpetual "Never Never" club.
To be fair, dealer is more competent and cheaper/same cost as any other shop, in my experience.
If you get a good one that doesn't break stuff or leave things missing because they don't "care" and I was more referring to things like oil changes, tires, cabin air filters. Things where it's more economical to shop elsewhere. Also from the standpoint of just that they are "renting" the vehicle instead of paying it off and keeping it running as long as possible and banking the savings from that and by shopping around for tires / oil changes / cabin air filters etc.
Meh. Dealer oil changes range from free to cheap, and the tires are priced similarly to online retailers.
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by StevieC
Friends of ours could care less what's under the hood so long as it has enough power to pass on the highway, enough room for them and the family, and the warranty lasts until the end of the payments.
They also take it to the dealer for everything.
When payments are done it gets traded in and a new vehicle starts... Perpetual "Never Never" club.
To be fair, dealer is more competent and cheaper/same cost as any other shop, in my experience.
If you get a good one that doesn't break stuff or leave things missing because they don't "care" and I was more referring to things like oil changes, tires, cabin air filters. Things where it's more economical to shop elsewhere. Also from the standpoint of just that they are "renting" the vehicle instead of paying it off and keeping it running as long as possible and banking the savings from that and by shopping around for tires / oil changes / cabin air filters etc.
Meh. Dealer oil changes range from free to cheap, and the tires are priced similarly to online retailers.
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Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Some people like quality vehicles from reputable manufacturers that will be around for a while and have been around for a while and have an actual dealer network maybe in a town near you, and don't require overnight "fuel ups" ever few hundred miles or a specialized "gas station" that you get to hang out at every few hours for a few hours, of your road trip.
And others want brutal, unmatched acceleration and instant throttle response without being hampered by slow shifting DCTs and automatics. They also want superior AWD systems, packaging and infotainment systems ...
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Some people like quality vehicles from reputable manufacturers that will be around for a while and have been around for a while and have an actual dealer network maybe in a town near you, and don't require overnight "fuel ups" ever few hundred miles or a specialized "gas station" that you get to hang out at every few hours for a few hours, of your road trip.
And others want brutal, unmatched acceleration and instant throttle response without being hampered by slow shifting DCTs and automatics. They also want superior AWD systems, packaging and infotainment systems ...
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
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Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
ok, sorry that was harsh. I'd delete this post but it won't let me.
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
ok, sorry that was harsh. I'd delete this post but it won't let me.
Originally Posted by JTK
I think it has to do with extracting the most power, economy, emissions and computer control out of a power train at the lowest cost possible. That's why the CVT IMO.
I did enjoy my two Subarus with CVTs, 2012 Legacy and 2016 Forester. Big preference to the Forester though. I have driven many Nissan Rogues from their inception in ~2007 up to 2019. I don't think that 4cyl and CVT poiwertrain is awful to drive, but it's not great. On the other hand, our big, heavy 2016 Nissan Quest with a VQ35 V6 and CVT has power galore and is a pleasure to drive.
That is true for my v6 VQ two door coupe. It actually does rather quite well with it's CVT.
I think it has to do with extracting the most power, economy, emissions and computer control out of a power train at the lowest cost possible. That's why the CVT IMO.
I did enjoy my two Subarus with CVTs, 2012 Legacy and 2016 Forester. Big preference to the Forester though. I have driven many Nissan Rogues from their inception in ~2007 up to 2019. I don't think that 4cyl and CVT poiwertrain is awful to drive, but it's not great. On the other hand, our big, heavy 2016 Nissan Quest with a VQ35 V6 and CVT has power galore and is a pleasure to drive.
That is true for my v6 VQ two door coupe. It actually does rather quite well with it's CVT.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Oversized driving iPad for people who want to play video game while driving.
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...
Oversized driving iPad for people who want to play video game while driving.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
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Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I once watched a dude eat a sandwich while steering with his knee and shifting at the same time.
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I once watched a dude eat a sandwich while steering with his knee and shifting at the same time.
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I once watched a dude eat a sandwich while steering with his knee and shifting at the same time.
Did that as a teenager, no big feat, and that was 25 years ago. Still do on occasion today.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I once watched a dude eat a sandwich while steering with his knee and shifting at the same time.
Did that as a teenager, no big feat, and that was 25 years ago. Still do on occasion today.
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
My impression, based on nothing of substance, is that CVT's are inherently weak and problem prone. DSG's are marginally better. Good old step A/T is next and then there's the manual for uber reliability. Looks like I'm going to spend some time at Toyota (Camry Hybrid) and VW on Saturday.
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
My impression, based on nothing of substance, is that CVT's are inherently weak and problem prone. DSG's are marginally better. Good old step A/T is next and then there's the manual for uber reliability. Looks like I'm going to spend some time at Toyota (Camry Hybrid) and VW on Saturday.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I really like the ZF 8HP in my 4 series. Great article btw....IMO the whole self-driving push is about #1 Make work program #2 All about keeping humans engaged with technological products/services for as long as possible. It's not about safety, it's about encouraging people to use their phones/tablets.
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....
Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html
I really like the ZF 8HP in my 4 series. Great article btw....IMO the whole self-driving push is about #1 Make work program #2 All about keeping humans engaged with technological products/services for as long as possible. It's not about safety, it's about encouraging people to use their phones/tablets.
Why so many?
Because they are good enough for quite a large chunk of the driving public. Not everyone is an enthusiast requiring a performance vehicle to be happy behind the wheel.
Because they are good enough for quite a large chunk of the driving public. Not everyone is an enthusiast requiring a performance vehicle to be happy behind the wheel.
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