In the last few years, I've noticed a marked increase in the number of accidents reported where one or both of the cars involved burst into flames, often killing the occupants. Aside from being horrifying, does this indicate poor design, smaller cars not protecting the fuel tanks enough, fuel injection not shutting off and spraying gasoline everywhere, or what?
Why so many fiery crashes?
- Thread starter Stelth
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Ethanol and probably a lot to do with cars operating at much higher temperatures.
Diesel is like home heating oil. You could put a match to it and it won't burn. Put it under pressure and it will though.
As for the Pinto, I think you are referring to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc
As for the Pinto, I think you are referring to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc
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Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Stop and think of diesels or direct injection engines....fuel pressures of 16,000 psi.Crash that and rip a line open and you have atomized fuel everywhere.
That's just it. The diesel fuel has to be atomized to burn. Which at 5000-26,000psi it would do quite nicely.
Stop and think of diesels or direct injection engines....fuel pressures of 16,000 psi.Crash that and rip a line open and you have atomized fuel everywhere.
That's just it. The diesel fuel has to be atomized to burn. Which at 5000-26,000psi it would do quite nicely.
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It would take a significant impact to break apart the short, ductile tubes between the common rail, injectors and HP pump. And even then, the total amount of fuel contained is hardly more than 200 cc.
Originally Posted By: Stelth
In the last few years, I've noticed a marked increase in the number of accidents reported where one or both of the cars involved burst into flames, often killing the occupants. Aside from being horrifying, does this indicate poor design, smaller cars not protecting the fuel tanks enough, fuel injection not shutting off and spraying gasoline everywhere, or what?
CAFE
In the last few years, I've noticed a marked increase in the number of accidents reported where one or both of the cars involved burst into flames, often killing the occupants. Aside from being horrifying, does this indicate poor design, smaller cars not protecting the fuel tanks enough, fuel injection not shutting off and spraying gasoline everywhere, or what?
CAFE
It has to do with Fiat's return to the US and Ferrari increasing production.
As vehicles get more fuel efficient fuel tanks have been getting smaller.
Originally Posted By: totegoat
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Ethanol and probably a lot to do with cars operating at much higher temperatures.
Probably the ethanol.
Probably Obama.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Ethanol and probably a lot to do with cars operating at much higher temperatures.
Probably the ethanol.
Probably Obama.
Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Diesel is like home heating oil. You could put a match to it and it won't burn. Put it under pressure and it will though.
Gasoline wont burn either.
Put a match to it and it will put the match out.
It is the fumes or vapor that burns.
As for the Pinto, I think you are referring to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc
Diesel is like home heating oil. You could put a match to it and it won't burn. Put it under pressure and it will though.
Gasoline wont burn either.
Put a match to it and it will put the match out.
It is the fumes or vapor that burns.
As for the Pinto, I think you are referring to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9GGDOUDLhc
Originally Posted By: totegoat
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Ethanol and probably a lot to do with cars operating at much higher temperatures.
Probably the ethanol.
I feel that it's much more likely to be the excessive methane gas emitted from overweight drivers who realize all of a sudden, the predicament they're in.
Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Ethanol and probably a lot to do with cars operating at much higher temperatures.
Probably the ethanol.
I feel that it's much more likely to be the excessive methane gas emitted from overweight drivers who realize all of a sudden, the predicament they're in.
First generation tauruses were pretty good hibachis.
Maybe its all the turbos and hot stuff crammed into an ever smaller space. Cab-forward having half the cowl over an engine keeps the heat in, add the oil leak from a valve cover gasket on one of those catalytic manifolds...
Maybe its all the turbos and hot stuff crammed into an ever smaller space. Cab-forward having half the cowl over an engine keeps the heat in, add the oil leak from a valve cover gasket on one of those catalytic manifolds...
Might be a side effect of fuel injection, whereby the fuel line from tank to injector has a return line, all under relatively high pressure in comparison to non-FI applications where 8 PSI was fine.
When most vehicles except light trucks ... the last of the truck-frame based SUVs are being discontinued now, everything is monocoque construction today ... so less protection of the fuel line is possible.
There are systems to stop fuel pumps in accidents, although the one for rollovers is probably the most reliable.
I think it's just the nature of the accident, with higher speeds more common today, and by that I mean both vehicles in a typical 2-car crash are probably over the limit by 5~10 mph each.
I'm not sure it's more than in the past ... I was just parts hunting in the junkyard the other day and the number of burned vehicles was very low; in fact I don't recall seeing one.
Diesel is basically an advanced mix of kerosene (as is fuel oil and turbo fuel for aircraft). Although it is a reluctant combustor, the vapour lights eagerly and the Kerosene-base fuels, once lit, burn hot and persistently, more persistent than gasoline. A Diesel that lights up will probably burn until all the fuel is gone. It also soaks into everything, including metals.
Aircraft with turbo engines often burn on impact, empty or full; if you're in a helicopter it's almost guaranteed it will burn, which is why I don't like having to ride in them.
The trouble with Aircraft Turbo fuel is they have naptha as part of the mix to make it easier to light in the turbine, so that lights up easily if fuel leaks. (A Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A, the world's most common turboprop motor by a longshot, has a piezo "spark", what amounts to a very, very expensive bar-b-q lighter, which lights the naptha vapour, which in turn lights the kerosene, to start the fuel burn).
The amount of naptha is a major difference between JetA and JetB.
Mercifully it was rare for me to have to ride in a rotorcraft and now that I'm retired, it's zero, so I'm OK with that. But back in the day when a helicopter missing came over the radio when I was in the copilot seat (I flew about 160 times a year in floatplanes for work) it was either underwater when they found it or it burned on the ground.
When most vehicles except light trucks ... the last of the truck-frame based SUVs are being discontinued now, everything is monocoque construction today ... so less protection of the fuel line is possible.
There are systems to stop fuel pumps in accidents, although the one for rollovers is probably the most reliable.
I think it's just the nature of the accident, with higher speeds more common today, and by that I mean both vehicles in a typical 2-car crash are probably over the limit by 5~10 mph each.
I'm not sure it's more than in the past ... I was just parts hunting in the junkyard the other day and the number of burned vehicles was very low; in fact I don't recall seeing one.
Diesel is basically an advanced mix of kerosene (as is fuel oil and turbo fuel for aircraft). Although it is a reluctant combustor, the vapour lights eagerly and the Kerosene-base fuels, once lit, burn hot and persistently, more persistent than gasoline. A Diesel that lights up will probably burn until all the fuel is gone. It also soaks into everything, including metals.
Aircraft with turbo engines often burn on impact, empty or full; if you're in a helicopter it's almost guaranteed it will burn, which is why I don't like having to ride in them.
The trouble with Aircraft Turbo fuel is they have naptha as part of the mix to make it easier to light in the turbine, so that lights up easily if fuel leaks. (A Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A, the world's most common turboprop motor by a longshot, has a piezo "spark", what amounts to a very, very expensive bar-b-q lighter, which lights the naptha vapour, which in turn lights the kerosene, to start the fuel burn).
The amount of naptha is a major difference between JetA and JetB.
Mercifully it was rare for me to have to ride in a rotorcraft and now that I'm retired, it's zero, so I'm OK with that. But back in the day when a helicopter missing came over the radio when I was in the copilot seat (I flew about 160 times a year in floatplanes for work) it was either underwater when they found it or it burned on the ground.
I just saw an 06ish Nissan Quest burned up at a mall during Christmas shopping. Other than that I haven't seen a car catch fire since a dodge stratus burned to the ground parked behind my accord. Thankfully the University of Pennsyvlania dragged it further away at some point. I had no idea it happened, campus security came up to me when they saw me getting in the car.
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