Why so many different Linux programs?

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Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Quoting csandste, "Mint, even the lighter MATE flavor". I've read this statement in several articles when Google searching Linux Mint. What do they mean by a "lighter version"? Does this mean that Mate can't do as many things as Mint can?

Just to clear some things up here... Mint itself comes in several flavors, for example Mate or Cinnamon. You can run all the same applications in both Mate and Cinnamon. The main difference is that the Cinnamon graphical user interface (GUI) is a little more polished/fancy. Mate is more simplistic, which means it is less resource intensive and therefore may be more suitable for some really old/outdated hardware. If you have fairly recent hardware, both should run just as well, but Cinnamon has slightly more eye candy.

Here is a video that compares the two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXAlUwwSyxI

You might be able to find some better comparisons if you google search "mate vs cinnamon".
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Great information. So if I have this right, all of the numerous programs ("distros") basically do the same thing but just do it a different way, and different visually?

Quoting csandste, "Mint, even the lighter MATE flavor". I've read this statement in several articles when Google searching Linux Mint. What do they mean by a "lighter version"? Does this mean that Mate can't do as many things as Mint can? I'm getting the hang of Mint and feel confident that it will do everything I could do with Windows. Just for curiosity's sake, would Mate have been a better choice? Not that I'm a speed freak but would Mate be faster than Mint? These maybe corny questions but I'm just trying to get and understanding of this new environment I've entered into.


How "light" or "heavy" a distro is depends on not really the package load, but rather the impact of the DE (Desktop Environment) on performance, which includes memory footprint. The highly polished and graphically demanding UI's use more resources (like KDE for example) but of course present the end user with a predictably "higher end" experience.

So, if you are running older hardware with a less than stellar CPU and GPU setup, running a lighter distro will result in better performance. If you are limping along an old geezer box, this is even more important. This is where DE selection becomes important.

For a lightweight DE, I have always been a fan of XFCE, but there are of course many others.
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Great information. So if I have this right, all of the numerous programs ("distros") basically do the same thing but just do it a different way, and different visually?


Exactly like building a family car and a small pickup around the same engine. Linux is the engine.
 
Originally Posted By: csandste
I'm writing this on my very old, very underpowered Acer Aspire 5515, which I think was a renamed E-Machines laptop which Walmart decided to throw on the market about a decade ago. When I ditched Windows for Ubuntu 12.04 (even numbers and .04 means the long term, not cutting edge distro in Ubuntese--the source of your Mintyness),


Ubuntu, rather cleverly in my opinion, numbers their release year.month and they release every April and October. Their Long Term Support releases (the only ones that normal users should be looking at) are every other year. 18.04, then - the next LTS release, supported for 5 years - comes out late next month.

Mint tracks only the LTS versions nowadays and they've made their updates pretty painless.
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Great information. So if I have this right, all of the numerous programs ("distros") basically do the same thing but just do it a different way, and different visually?

Just for curiosity's sake, would Mate have been a better choice? Not that I'm a speed freak but would Mate be faster than Mint? These maybe corny questions but I'm just trying to get and understanding of this new environment I've entered into.


MATE is probably faster than regular Mint; or you can, get prepared for this...... Try it out and see if you like it.....
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Great information. So if I have this right, all of the numerous programs ("distros") basically do the same thing but just do it a different way, and different visually?

Just for curiosity's sake, would Mate have been a better choice? Not that I'm a speed freak but would Mate be faster than Mint? These maybe corny questions but I'm just trying to get and understanding of this new environment I've entered into.


MATE is a Desktop Environment (your task bar, menu, window decorations and some interface design technologies). Mint is an OS. An OS will use one of a handful of Desktop Environments. Mint defaults to a more powerful, but slower and more resource-heavy called Cinnamon. MATE is a project taken from the code (called "forking" the code) of an older Desktop Environment called Gnome 2. Cinnamon is a fork of Gnome 3. MATE is simpler, faster and more stable. Cinnamon is fancier, more powerful and prettier. MATE runs on low-spec hardware, Cinnamon does not.
 
Great info. It's starting to make more sence to me.

Another question, this time concerning updates. For those who use Linux Mint, do you update all the files, any level? Levels 4 & 5 seem to be riskier from what I can gather. I've read, and watched Youtube videos, and I get conflicting opinions. Some say nothing but level 3 and above, others say all 5 levels. Can someone help me get a grasp of this?
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
Great info. It's starting to make more sence to me.

Another question, this time concerning updates. For those who use Linux Mint, do you update all the files, any level? Levels 4 & 5 seem to be riskier from what I can gather. I've read, and watched Youtube videos, and I get conflicting opinions. Some say nothing but level 3 and above, others say all 5 levels. Can someone help me get a grasp of this?


The "safer" levels represent software that has open source code, has had that code compiled by Ubuntu developers (which the Mint team mooches from) and has been tested by those developers before being placed in the Ubuntu (and therefore Mint) software repositories. The less "safe" levels are simply straight from the software developer's sources and cannot be examined, endorsed or supported by the Mint developers.

In Windows you are getting *all* of your 3rd-party software from the developers directly and therefore what Mint would call levels 4 & 5. One of the many advantages of using open source software and using a mainstream Linux distro is that very capable people are compiling the code and testing it before availing it to you.

I am not sure that I have ever seen a Level 4 or 5 package represent a security concern per se; but I have seen many times a newer version of software coming straight from a developer introduce compatibility and user interface issues. Many times when open source software is compiled by Ubuntu or some other distro, they make some changes in order for that software to play more nicely with the wider OS. Ubuntu, for example, used to have an application's menu appear in the top bar (like a Mac). For each and every software package, one of the Ubuntu developers had to place the code that made that happen into the application's source code. Getting a piece of software directly from a developer would not have that code inserted into it and therefore would not sport that feature; and therefore would introduce a user interface inconsistency.

If everything works the way you want it to work, I suggest going with Levels 3 and safer; more so to prevent changes to the applications than out of security fears. "Stability" can mean "doesn't change" much more than "doesn't crash"! Anyone who has faithfully used Firefox for the last few years can relate to the frustration inherent in the user interface and features changing dramatically.
 
I've been updating levels 1-3 of Mint 17.3 but I've never had trouble with updates to my girl friend's Ubuntu Mate which updates the whole thing, no choices. Of course I always back up all her document and picture files to a thumb drive, just in case. My Peppermint Linux distro has the Mint updater and everything (levels 1-5) is set to update unless you restrict it. Never had a problem with its updates, however it sits in my kitchen, not hooked to a printer. If I was starting out in Mint, I think I'd set it for all updates-- my Mint 17.3 is pretty old at the core, one of the reasons I'm probably going to switch to Ubuntu Mate next month.

There's a parallel between BITOG discussions and Linux discussions. It's fun to discuss which oil is best, also which distro. In reality all of them are pretty good. Just to show I'm fair, here's a good article on why Linux Mint is better than Ubuntu for beginners. I assume his listing of MATE is Ubuntu MATE, I really think it's smaller than Mint cinnamon and about the size of Mint Mate. Also, unless I'm wrong, the latest version of Linux Mint does not ship with all the codecs that were in earlier distros.

https://itsfoss.com/linux-mint-vs-ubuntu/

Linux Mint developer Clément Lefèbvre and Ubuntu Mate guru Martin Wimpress are both pretty interesting guys. No matter what distro you use you should find Wimpress's explanation of why he developed Ubuntu Mate good reading (or viewing on YouTube). Wimpress does have some valid (but probably overstated) criticisms of Mint's update policies.
 
Originally Posted By: csandste
BTW-- If you want to see if Linux Mint Mate runs better than Cinnamon on your computer you can easily do so without a re-install.


This should be said more: You can install as many Desktop Environments as you want without reinstall; and choose which one you want to run at the login screen.
 
One other reason I'm probably moving to Ubuntu Mate is that it has multiple, out of the box, panel layouts available. This is a way to get a different look and feel that is even easier than toggling between MATE and Cinnamon.

Mutiny mimics the Unity 7 interface
Cupertino provides something similar to macOS
Redmond will be familiar to Windows users
Pantheon a hybrid for long time desktop Linux users who want some modern conveniences
Contemporary a blend of the best of the old and the sprinkle of the new
Netbook people still use them and this layout is for them
Traditional just like your Dad remembers it, and still the default
 
Originally Posted By: csandste
One other reason I'm probably moving to Ubuntu Mate is that it has multiple, out of the box, panel layouts available. This is a way to get a different look and feel that is even easier than toggling between MATE and Cinnamon.

That's pretty cool. I just added MATE to one of my ubuntu installs using the below instructions, but it did not add any of the others like Cinnamon. I guess I need to install each one separately using a different set of instructions/commands?

https://www.tecmint.com/install-mate-desktop-in-ubuntu-fedora/
 
As far as processors go I'm running a Celeron G1840 Haswell with Mint Cinnamon. Runs great but the only bug-a-boo was Netflix through Chrome at 1080P resolution (Firefox fox only runs at 720P at its highest). Ended up installing a Nvidia GT710 video card to smooth out the playback with the Nouveau drivers (Nvidea's were buggy).
 
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
Originally Posted By: csandste
BTW-- If you want to see if Linux Mint Mate runs better than Cinnamon on your computer you can easily do so without a re-install.


This should be said more: You can install as many Desktop Environments as you want without reinstall; and choose which one you want to run at the login screen.


I wasn't aware of this capability. I'm new to this whole Linux environment. I battled dual booting for almost two weeks, after finally getting a working copy of Mint on my hard drive, and was becoming wore out and frustrated. That's why Mint is permanently installed now with no Windows anything, anywhere.

I would very much like to see MATE. And if it could be done easily without damaging my Linux Mint already there, I'd like to try it. I read Quatro Pete's link for doing something like this but it was a little above my level of understanding. I'll go back to Google and Youtube for any information I can find for doing this. If someone can offer any simple instructions for an "old" noob like me, that would be appreciated.

Three weeks ago, I didn't know much, if anything, about Linux, or Windows. I didn't know what BIOS was, or that I could change something in it. If someone had bet me that I (along with Bitog, Youtube and Google help) would have removed Windows from my computer and replaced it with Linux Mint, I wouldn't have taken it. Being older and retired, it was a nice way to pass some time. And for me an accomplishment.
 
I switched from Linux Mint Cinnamon to Linux Mint Mate a couple of years ago. I think it runs a bit faster on my old machine but I can't remember any huge differences in look and feel. I'm sure that Cinnamon is a bit nicer looking.

As far as I know, Mint doesn't have easily toggleable layouts like Ubuntu Mate. (Cupertino for Apple, Redmond for Windows, etc). Neither do other versions of Ubuntu. Interestingly enough Ubuntu Mate features Mutiny which looks a lot like Unity. Unity was the hated (by many) interface developed for Ubuntu-- haters [censored] about it for years until they finally ditched it for Gnome 3. Apparently enough people liked it to have a sort of ghost theme carry on for part of Ubuntu Mate. My big complaint about the original Ubuntu was that it got to big for my computer when 14.04 came out.

Once again, there's a parallel about all of this to discussions on BITOG on group 3 oils or ecore filters. Lots of opinions about choices. Nothing like this in the world of Microsoft. In some ways it reminds me of the opinion battles which raged in the early eighties about which was the best word processor. Anyone remember PCWrite which was shareware and had unlimited ways to rearrange letters by hitting function keys? Like someone could change syek to keys by hitting something like f1f1f3-- like anyone would want to do that?
 
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I would very much like to see MATE. And if it could be done easily without damaging my Linux Mint already there, I'd like to try it. I read Quatro Pete's link for doing something like this but it was a little above my level of understanding. I'll go back to Google and Youtube for any information I can find for doing this. If someone can offer any simple instructions for an "old" noob like me, that would be appreciated.

Which version of Mint do you currently have? Is it Cinnamon? If so, here is how to add MATE to it:
http://goinglinux.com/articles/Installing MATE alongside Cinnamon_en.htm
 
A Desktop Environment ("DE" from now on) is just generally the user interface, maybe bundled with some small utility applications, and maybe bundled at the discretion of the developers with some larger ones. They are all quite configurable.

The developers of the differing DE's share their developments with other DE's; and the developers of distros share their advancements in using those DE's with the DE developers. Everything is open and free (both as in "no cost" and in "freedom") and everyone realizes that everyone benefits if everyone shares.
 
Originally Posted By: csandste
I switched from Linux Mint Cinnamon to Linux Mint Mate a couple of years ago. I think it runs a bit faster on my old machine but I can't remember any huge differences in look and feel. I'm sure that Cinnamon is a bit nicer looking.

I've been playing around with Mate and Cinnamon DEs on Ubuntu 16.04 the past couple of days. Honestly, there isn't a whole lot of difference between them. The one thing I am missing on Mate is the "Search" function that would allow you to quickly find an installed app from the task bar. I'm sure there is a way to add it/enable it. I'm still mucking around with it, but I have gotten so used to Unity interface over the past few years that these add-on DEs don't really do much for me.


39786173985_266338c57f_o.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Sierra048
I would very much like to see MATE. And if it could be done easily without damaging my Linux Mint already there, I'd like to try it. I read Quatro Pete's link for doing something like this but it was a little above my level of understanding. I'll go back to Google and Youtube for any information I can find for doing this. If someone can offer any simple instructions for an "old" noob like me, that would be appreciated.

Which version of Mint do you currently have? Is it Cinnamon? If so, here is how to add MATE to it:
http://goinglinux.com/articles/Installing MATE alongside Cinnamon_en.htm


QP,

It's Cinnamon Mint. Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
 
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