Why is Mobil 1 such a lightning rod?
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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I need to make one correction to the above Drew. I have never seen any advertisements or claims that Quaker State was x times better than Mobil 1. Only Valvoline and Castrol have made those claims.
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I need to make one correction to the above Drew. I have never seen any advertisements or claims that Quaker State was x times better than Mobil 1. Only Valvoline and Castrol have made those claims.
The thing is, we are saying all of Mobil 1 is the same, when it clearly isn't. The ZDDP values are much higher for some of their oils than in other oils of theirs: 0w-40 and 15w-50 for example as compared to their 5w-20 and 5w30.
If you look at these values and run them in an engine (in equivalent viscosities obviously) at 7000rpm for a certain amount of time, you should logically see less high stress-type wear from the oil with more ZDDP.
Besides, from what I know the the 0w-40 and 15w-50 oils also have more calcium, boron, and other anti-wear additives.
One other thing to look at is your sample group. we aren't necessarily getting a 100% even distribution of people with every type of car who drive equally aggressively, who use mobil 1 of every grade. people who put the extra money out to get mobil 1 are going to (generally) have more expensive, more powerful cars and/or drive them more agressively. This would inevitably cause higher piston ring wear (hence the higher iron).
my 2cents
Jason
If you look at these values and run them in an engine (in equivalent viscosities obviously) at 7000rpm for a certain amount of time, you should logically see less high stress-type wear from the oil with more ZDDP.
Besides, from what I know the the 0w-40 and 15w-50 oils also have more calcium, boron, and other anti-wear additives.
One other thing to look at is your sample group. we aren't necessarily getting a 100% even distribution of people with every type of car who drive equally aggressively, who use mobil 1 of every grade. people who put the extra money out to get mobil 1 are going to (generally) have more expensive, more powerful cars and/or drive them more agressively. This would inevitably cause higher piston ring wear (hence the higher iron).
my 2cents
Jason
Lets make this simple. M-1 was the leader for years . Everyone hates the leader except the disciples. Now that other brands have caught (and surpassed) the leader , even the faithful is fleeing and reporting their negative results. Other haters read the reports and made them gospel. Wow, sounds like the second coming and the new testament all rolled up in oil.
Originally Posted By: chad8
Lets make this simple. M-1 was the leader for years . Everyone hates the leader except the disciples. Now that other brands have caught (and surpassed) the leader , even the faithful is fleeing and reporting their negative results. Other haters read the reports and made them gospel. Wow, sounds like the second coming and the new testament all rolled up in oil.
M1 is still the leader by a wide margin. It's true others have finally caught up in some ways after 35 years, but M1 is still an excellant oil for people who want to keep their engines very clean and long lived, with long OCIs.
Lets make this simple. M-1 was the leader for years . Everyone hates the leader except the disciples. Now that other brands have caught (and surpassed) the leader , even the faithful is fleeing and reporting their negative results. Other haters read the reports and made them gospel. Wow, sounds like the second coming and the new testament all rolled up in oil.
M1 is still the leader by a wide margin. It's true others have finally caught up in some ways after 35 years, but M1 is still an excellant oil for people who want to keep their engines very clean and long lived, with long OCIs.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I didn't imply any of that, and you know it. Relax.
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I didn't imply any of that, and you know it. Relax.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
I've seen some poor RLI Biosyn in the UOA section, I don't hear Terry commenting on that.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I love the internet, simple facts indeed.
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
I've seen some poor RLI Biosyn in the UOA section, I don't hear Terry commenting on that.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
I love the internet, simple facts indeed.
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Originally Posted By: Y_K
Originally Posted By: vtb
It seems political, really.
It's like USA: similar polarization of attitudes
Yeah, pretty much. I never knew that we all lived on the X axis playing tug-o-war.
My take in a nutshell: As long as there is blind devotion and the ignoring of criticism there will be continued bashing. Not so much with the product being the primary target, but to thwart the inverted edition of The Emperor's New Clothes. Only those so anointed can NOT see those things. Those who can see flaws are obviously heretics ..blasphemers.
Maybe XOM puts Enzyte in M1.
Originally Posted By: vtb
It seems political, really.
It's like USA: similar polarization of attitudes
Yeah, pretty much. I never knew that we all lived on the X axis playing tug-o-war.
My take in a nutshell: As long as there is blind devotion and the ignoring of criticism there will be continued bashing. Not so much with the product being the primary target, but to thwart the inverted edition of The Emperor's New Clothes. Only those so anointed can NOT see those things. Those who can see flaws are obviously heretics ..blasphemers.
Maybe XOM puts Enzyte in M1.
Far from an authority, nor do I claim to be one, but if the consistently high(er) iron counts on posted UOA's don't at least give one pause, well then I don't know what else to say.
In the non boutique synthetics, SOPUS products are looking pretty solid to me.
In the non boutique synthetics, SOPUS products are looking pretty solid to me.
Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
Drew,
Can I still point out facts of many family and friends using nothing but M1 with engines that have many miles on them(200-300K+) with never any engine problems, like wear?
Why do you always bring that up? That's not the point and what was used in years past has nothing to do with today's formulations.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
Am I a total novice doodfood? Do you know more about oil then the people who point out the factual evidence about Mobil 1, and does that even matter?
Is Terry Dyson, who proclaimed that he sees more wear with Mobil 1 in his testing (and he concludes it's actual wear), a total novice?
Are the lawyers who obviously allow their clients at Valvoline, Castrol, and Quaker State to continue advertising that their products are superior to Mobil 1, novices?
I'm sorry some of you guys who tout a product don't like criticism, but it's not going to stop me or others from pointing out simple facts.
Drew,
Can I still point out facts of many family and friends using nothing but M1 with engines that have many miles on them(200-300K+) with never any engine problems, like wear?
Why do you always bring that up? That's not the point and what was used in years past has nothing to do with today's formulations.
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He doesn't understand that this is just another edition of The Emperor's New Clothes. Blind devotion without merit in the light of criticism. Address the criticism instead of pretending it's invisible.
It's not serving M1 well. I fuels continued bashing.
It's not serving M1 well. I fuels continued bashing.
I'm just not a believer in synthetic 30 weights. That visc range is well served by dino oils, especially at shorter intervals for the money.
Therefore, the classic M1 5w30 does nothing for me in itself, but that seems to be "the one" the long-time users love.
So, if you want synth oil, it should be in a 0w-40 or 5w-40 type oil. In those grades, Mobil 1 is a more desirable product. The M1 0w-30 SL that I use is ok and the Hi-Miles oils I chose to recently purchase have their place with the SL and HM additives, and some Euro specs.
M1 5w30, you can have it.
Therefore, the classic M1 5w30 does nothing for me in itself, but that seems to be "the one" the long-time users love.
So, if you want synth oil, it should be in a 0w-40 or 5w-40 type oil. In those grades, Mobil 1 is a more desirable product. The M1 0w-30 SL that I use is ok and the Hi-Miles oils I chose to recently purchase have their place with the SL and HM additives, and some Euro specs.
M1 5w30, you can have it.
The only real benefit these days of Mobil 1 is it's ability to handle high temperature deposits. IMHO. Other oils now offer the same high temp perofrmance, but also provide better cam lobe protection which is why Ashland and BP have been advertising x times better. This is mainly for their 5w30. Don't know about the other grades.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
Originally Posted By: buster
The only real benefit these days of Mobil 1 is it's ability to handle high temperature deposits. IMHO. Other oils now offer the same high temp perofrmance, but also provide better cam lobe protection which is why Ashland and BP have been advertising x times better. This is mainly for their 5w30. Don't know about the other grades.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
I agree...
Synthetic Oils:
-Extended drains
-Less sludge and varnish = cleaner.
-Better handling of heat.
-More shear resistant.
-Extra margin of protection.
-Some European and US manufacturer's have made the switch at the factory.
-Better pumpability at low temperatures.
...wait...synthetics might be better!
The only real benefit these days of Mobil 1 is it's ability to handle high temperature deposits. IMHO. Other oils now offer the same high temp perofrmance, but also provide better cam lobe protection which is why Ashland and BP have been advertising x times better. This is mainly for their 5w30. Don't know about the other grades.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
I agree...
Synthetic Oils:
-Extended drains
-Less sludge and varnish = cleaner.
-Better handling of heat.
-More shear resistant.
-Extra margin of protection.
-Some European and US manufacturer's have made the switch at the factory.
-Better pumpability at low temperatures.
...wait...synthetics might be better!
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's 32 years, and the M1 I use today is as good or better than any M1 I have ever used.
Are you sure about that?
Has been for myself and everyone I know that uses it exclusively.
Originally Posted By: tig1
It's 32 years, and the M1 I use today is as good or better than any M1 I have ever used.
Are you sure about that?
Has been for myself and everyone I know that uses it exclusively.
Originally Posted By: buster
The only real benefit these days of Mobil 1 is it's ability to handle high temperature deposits. IMHO. Other oils now offer the same high temp perofrmance, but also provide better cam lobe protection which is why Ashland and BP have been advertising x times better. This is mainly for their 5w30. Don't know about the other grades.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
No benefit for the average driver ,Except engines that will last a very long time. Can't take that away from M1.
The only real benefit these days of Mobil 1 is it's ability to handle high temperature deposits. IMHO. Other oils now offer the same high temp perofrmance, but also provide better cam lobe protection which is why Ashland and BP have been advertising x times better. This is mainly for their 5w30. Don't know about the other grades.
Unless you're going to push drain intervals a bit further or need an oil that can handle very high temperatures, there is little it will do for the average driver.
No benefit for the average driver ,Except engines that will last a very long time. Can't take that away from M1.
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