Why have OCD about oil then use junk filters?

[grampi48]

I see it in here all the time. People posting about whether to use syn or dino, or which brand to use, how long on an OCI, etc, then they use a Fram filter. Do people actually think the filter isn't important?

I know some of you have seen the independent lab study that was done a few years back because I've seen it mentioned in this forum before, but unfortunately, I'm not able to locate that study anymore. In the test, they conducted several tests on almost every filter that was available and they came up with a list of filters that were the best, and filters to stay away from. The Frams were among the filters to stay away from because they said the cheap, cardboard elements would separate from the canister, not only making them completely useless as a filter, but creating the possibility of causing engine damage. Yet many people in here continue to use Fram filters and continue to deny that they aren't any good. What I don't understand is why not simply remove all doubt by spending an extra $1-$2 per filter and get a good one like a Puraltor or an AC Delco? Some people have OCD about what oil they use, or how long their OCI is, but they'll spin on any ol' filter. Makes no sense to me. That's like making sure the water you drink is absolutely purified, then drinking it from a dirty glass.

 

[WishIhadatruck]

I rarely see anyone mention using a Fram here. Only once in a while.

 

[westex39]

If I had to pick one or the other, I would use a quality filter and cheaper oil.
I use Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 and Mobil 1 EP oil filters.

 

[flatlandtacoma]

Quote:

---

I see it in here all the time. People posting about whether to use syn or dino, or which brand to use, how long on an OCI, etc, then they use a Fram filter. Do people actually think the filter isn't important?

I know some of you have seen the independent lab study that was done a few years back because I've seen it mentioned in this forum before, but unfortunately, I'm not able to locate that study anymore. In the test, they conducted several tests on almost every filter that was available and they came up with a list of filters that were the best, and filters to stay away from. The Frams were among the filters to stay away from because they said the cheap, cardboard elements would separate from the canister, not only making them completely useless as a filter, but creating the possibility of causing engine damage. Yet many people in here continue to use Fram filters and continue to deny that they aren't any good. What I don't understand is why not simply remove all doubt by spending an extra $1-$2 per filter and get a good one like a Puraltor or an AC Delco? Some people have OCD about what oil they use, or how long their OCI is, but they'll spin on any ol' filter. Makes no sense to me. That's like making sure the water you drink is absolutely purified, then drinking it from a dirty glass.

---

Because many people cut open their own filters and/or can think for themselves.

That wasn't a "lab study", that was some guy who cut open a bunch of filters, took some measurements, and gave some subjective opinions. What I got out of that internet site was that Frams are overpriced.

How many problems or failures have you experienced using Fram? I haven't had any, I bet you haven't either.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Quote:

---

I see it in here all the time. People posting about whether to use syn or dino, or which brand to use, how long on an OCI, etc, then they use a Fram filter. Do people actually think the filter isn't important?

Makes no sense to me. That's like making sure the water you drink is absolutely purified, then drinking it from a dirty glass.

---

I agree with you. I used Fram filters for many years, up until about 3 or 4 years ago. I had a lot of trouble with start up noise in the valve train. I heard on several different forums that the problem was the anti-drainback valve in the Fram orange filters is very bad. I changed to Motorcraft or Purolator and NEVER had that problem since.
The funny thing is - often the better filters are actually cheaper than Fram. I get my Motorcraft filter at wallymart for less than they charge for the orange Fram. Go figure!

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Are you saying "all" Fram filter models are junk Grampi????

Which models Grampi?

Do you have any pics to depict those cardboard-ends coming apart? Or is this all "hearsay" on your part?

BTW I use Motorcraft mostly... then Purolator - so I'm not a Fram purchaser! Formerly used NAPA - until they failed to issue me my $6.60 rebate recently. I maintain six vehicles - so they lost some good business there.

 

[dwendt44]

I've had trouble with AC filters; trouble with an old Penzoil filter; and on another part of this forum, a guy had trouble with a Pure-One.
Fram sells millions of those orange filters each year, a very few could have a flaw that got past QC checks.
In the 45 years I've been driving, most of my filter changes have been Fram Orange, never a problem.
You can get a better quality filter for the same or less money, but Frams are available everywhere, I have to travel or hunt for the others.
I use a better grade of Fram now, and I am trying a couple of others, but still generally use a Fram.

 

[Marshalus]

I use Mann filters in my Passat.

My dad used to use Fram in all his cars, I think he may still in his two Fords, but I think in their Toyota and Honda he's using Pure-Ones.

 

[Nappers]

I have seen pictures (soon as I find the site I'll post) of a Fram failing, the cardboard ends crumple, the site did not indicate how long before OCI but it showed a bad failure (filter collapsing bad) I use Wix/Napa Gold filters, not much more money but has metal end caps and a real spring keepin the filter in place and a decent bypass valve and have been happy since.

I also used Fram filters for a long long time on all of my vehicles, and have some old ones in a cabinet unused.

Soon as I find the pix or the site I'll post it.

I am considering using fleetfilter.com as a place to buy filters for all of my rigs, they are cheaper than Frams (when bought in bulk) and if I get together with some coworkers, cheaper on shipping.

Take care.

Aaron

 

[beanoil]

In order of importance, IMO..
1) Air filter
Never skimp here. The largest source for dirt entry in an engine.
2) Oil filter
If dirt does get in, it needs to be removed, and held.
3) Oil choice
Nearly any of todays oils will get you to 100, 150k or more if maintained regularly.
I have become quite fond of the PureOne line for both air and oil. Did use some M1, but have been a Hav user since introduced to BITOG, and the AA closeouts. I'm pretty much sticking with Chevron/Havoline products from here on out, except in the Envoy. It gets GC, which is BITOG

 

[m2200b]

If Frams were around the $1-2 I pay for purolator or
ST I'd consider them. I don't do long OCI so I regard them as overpriced rather than junk.

 

[grampi48]

Quote:

---

Are you saying "all" Fram filter models are junk Grampi????

Which models Grampi?

Do you have any pics to depict those cardboard-ends coming apart? Or is this all "hearsay" on your part?

BTW I use Motorcraft mostly... then Purolator - so I'm not a Fram purchaser! Formerly used NAPA - until they failed to issue me my $6.60 rebate recently. I maintain six vehicles - so they lost some good business there.

---

Nope. In the lab tests they determined the mid-priced Fram (I don't remember if it was the Tough Guard or the Extra Guard) was just okay. They said the one with orange canister and the highest priced ones were junk.

 

[Nappers]

found it!!

The failed filter is at the bottom, like I said(he said) not known how long the OCI was or what may have caused this but it's interesting to see.

http://www.lesabret.com/filters/filter.html

L8R

 

[grampi48]

Thanks Nappers. What would you rather have metal or carboard end caps? I know what I'm going with.

 

[Cicero17]

It is clear that no one knows how long that particular filter was in service before it failed, but you are still left with the fact that a metal end cap would have at least decreased the amount of failure and subsequent harm to the engine. When the empirical evidence is that Fram is junk, it just doesn't make sense to trust them, no matter how available they are. Anyplace you can get a Fram you can also get a better filter for a lower price.

One other observation, someone in another thread stated Honda filters are Frams. I don't know if that part if true, but I do know they have cardboard end caps. I have not used a Honda filter since that discovery even though our Odyssey is still under warranty. Mostly I have used Napa Silver, but I also have ST for the Odyssey.

Don

 

[JustinH]

Hey Aaron,

Those wix filters look good, but the prices aren't that cheap. 3 bucks a piece plus shipping for a fl820s replacement. If you go to walmart this filter is between 3 bucks and 349 every day.

I'd rather just go there.

Quote:

---

I have seen pictures (soon as I find the site I'll post) of a Fram failing, the cardboard ends crumple, the site did not indicate how long before OCI but it showed a bad failure (filter collapsing bad) I use Wix/Napa Gold filters, not much more money but has metal end caps and a real spring keepin the filter in place and a decent bypass valve and have been happy since.

I also used Fram filters for a long long time on all of my vehicles, and have some old ones in a cabinet unused.

Soon as I find the pix or the site I'll post it.

I am considering using fleetfilter.com as a place to buy filters for all of my rigs, they are cheaper than Frams (when bought in bulk) and if I get together with some coworkers, cheaper on shipping.

Take care.

Aaron

---

 

[turbochem]

Quote:

---

I know some of you have seen the independent lab study that was done a few years back because I've seen it mentioned in this forum before, but unfortunately, I'm not able to locate that study anymore.

---

Yeah, the ole phantom "lab test."

Everyone's heard of it, and apparently they know the "results" by the book, but no one knows where it is.

Do you know how valuable an actual lab test would be to us?

Alas......only an apparition....

 

[grampi48]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I know some of you have seen the independent lab study that was done a few years back because I've seen it mentioned in this forum before, but unfortunately, I'm not able to locate that study anymore.

---

Yeah, the ole phantom "lab test."

Everyone's heard of it, and apparently they know the "results" by the book, but no one knows where it is.

Do you know how valuable an actual lab test would be to us?

Alas......only an apparition....

---

Sure. Do you know anyone who has a lab and a couple of engineers who aren't doing anything?

 

[turbochem]

Quote:

---

Sure. Do you know anyone who has a lab and a couple of engineers who aren't doing anything?

---

Well....if an "independent lab study" does not actually exist....maybe we should strike the phrase from our lexicon......

...lest we accidentally mislead others.....

 

[grampi48]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Sure. Do you know anyone who has a lab and a couple of engineers who aren't doing anything?

---

Well....if an "independent lab study" does not actually exist....maybe we should strike the phrase from our lexicon......

...lest we accidentally mislead others.....

---

Maybe you haven't seen the lab test (and maybe you have and you're just being difficult), but many others in this forum have. Now if I can find the lab test, I will post it. If I can't it doesn't mean I'm a liar and you have no right calling me one. In the meantime, if you choose to continue to use Fram filters, that's your problem. Many of us KNOW they are inferior and they are whether you're willing to accept it or not.