Why Does Time Affect OCI

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Can someone explain to me why they say for eg. 12,000 KM or 6 MONTHS Whatever comes first.

How is it that the time affects the OCI, when oil can be sitting in containers for 5 yrs and not degrade much. Why is it that as soon as it goes in the engine we are on the 6 Months count down?
 
to make the XOM's of the world more money. personally i don't think it's much of an issue especially for warm climates like mine. maybe in the freezing cold.

in fact i only after the year 2000 realised that there actually is a time limit as the cars i grew up with had just mileage intervals.
 
Unless it's sitting in the Tundra for 3 years, I doubt time makes much of a difference when it comes to a good synthetic. Not so sure I'd try this with a petroleum. As to comparing it to sitting on the shelf in a plastic bottle in the store where it's warm, that is totally different than sitting in an engine with metal, condensation and contaminants.
 
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Up until a few years back I always went by miles regardless of time. Then when I bought a new vehicle with a warrranty I started going by time on that vehicle simply because of the warranty. If I didn't hit the mile limit I set in 1 year with non-warranty vehicles I would typically change the oil in 12-15 months. I think once I got lazy and actually might have gone 2 years. One thing I do remember with that vehicle, each time it was started it was driven at least 30 minutes. Oil used at the time was M1.
 
Originally Posted By: 1993_VG30E_GXE
Can someone explain to me why they say for eg. 12,000 KM or 6 MONTHS Whatever comes first.

How is it that the time affects the OCI, when oil can be sitting in containers for 5 yrs and not degrade much. Why is it that as soon as it goes in the engine we are on the 6 Months count down?


Good post, I think a lot of us wondered that. I think also, its a way for the dealers to get you in for regular service....or regular gougings. I agree as well, that time is more of a factor with conventional, rather than synthetics. I dont think Id go a year interval with at least a blend, but I'm sure others have, and have done fine with it.
 
Time is a factor because oil will build up acids and compustion by-products and can corrode internal parts such as bearings. It needs to be drain out.
 
There was a recent UOA posted from a Dodge 3.9L engine that wasn't impressive, and the popular working theory was because the oil was in the engine too long, time wise. The mileage was very reasonable, but it was in the engine for a year or longer as I recall.
 
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
There was a recent UOA posted from a Dodge 3.9L engine that wasn't impressive, and the popular working theory was because the oil was in the engine too long, time wise. The mileage was very reasonable, but it was in the engine for a year or longer as I recall.


Was this with dino or syn? Most of the long drain synthetics have additives beyond what conventionals do to combat these acids. I believe calcium is one of them.
 
And don't forget...to organic chemicals, metallic surfaces can be catalytic for things like oxidation whereas plastic bottle surfaces are really not This would be less of a factor where oils that are very "saturated" (no double bonds) like a synthetic are in use. However, today's quality dinos are far better in such a respect than their counterparts of decades ago,
 
Originally Posted By: ryan2022
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
There was a recent UOA posted from a Dodge 3.9L engine that wasn't impressive, and the popular working theory was because the oil was in the engine too long, time wise. The mileage was very reasonable, but it was in the engine for a year or longer as I recall.


Was this with dino or syn? Most of the long drain synthetics have additives beyond what conventionals do to combat these acids. I believe calcium is one of them.


Oil still needs to be changed out after a year at the most. Not sure I agree with the 6 month warranty time interval but that is a conservative estimate set by the manufacturer. My time limit for cars out of warranty is 1 year. Cars in warranty is 6 months.
 
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
There was a recent UOA posted from a Dodge 3.9L engine that wasn't impressive, and the popular working theory was because the oil was in the engine too long, time wise. The mileage was very reasonable, but it was in the engine for a year or longer as I recall.


There are also UOA's that show oil can go a year or more. I would not use dino oil for that long, I never have. Under the conditions I was driving at the time there was no reason in the world the M1 couldn't go a year. The one time I stretched it to 2 years was just being lazy on my part.

Originally Posted By: PT1


Oil still needs to be changed out after a year at the most. Not sure I agree with the 6 month warranty time interval but that is a conservative estimate set by the manufacturer. My time limit for cars out of warranty is 1 year. Cars in warranty is 6 months.


That is pretty much what I do now. The Jeep is getting 6 month OCI's to keep Chrysler happy. Aerostar goes by miles typically 4 month OCI's. My E-150 9 months to 1 year OCI's. It's been working well.
 
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Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: ryan2022
Originally Posted By: Jason Adcock
There was a recent UOA posted from a Dodge 3.9L engine that wasn't impressive, and the popular working theory was because the oil was in the engine too long, time wise. The mileage was very reasonable, but it was in the engine for a year or longer as I recall.


Was this with dino or syn? Most of the long drain synthetics have additives beyond what conventionals do to combat these acids. I believe calcium is one of them.


Oil still needs to be changed out after a year at the most. Not sure I agree with the 6 month warranty time interval but that is a conservative estimate set by the manufacturer. My time limit for cars out of warranty is 1 year. Cars in warranty is 6 months.


Me too. I wouldn't run over a year in any circumstance. People have, and have done fine, but I wouldn't do it as a rule.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Time is a factor because oil will build up acids and compustion by-products and can corrode internal parts such as bearings. It needs to be drain out.


BINGO.

If a car is used for commuting twice a week for a 100 mile round trip (with no short trips in between) it could probably do a 7500 mile OCI on dino (approx. 9 months). If a car is driven to the supermarket (by a little old lady) 3 times a week (and never fully warms up) it would have a lot of contaminants in the oil that I wouldn't want in there for a year. The car manufacturers put a mileage and a time because they don't know how the car will be used.
This is why the GM oil life monitor is a very good technology advancement, IMO.
 
This is taken from the Motor Oil bible. It talks about sacrificial additives that deal with corrosion and acids.

"RUST AND CORROSION INHIBITORS

Rust inhibitors are special compounds blended into a motor oil that, in addition to the motor oil itself, attach themselves to internal components and prevent the formation of rust by forming a barrier that prevents water from contacting the metal surface. This additive is extremely tenacious and once it attaches itself to the component it will remain there in order to do its job, especially during engine shutdown. This additive is sacrificial in nature and does deplete with time in service.

The only way to determine if these additives are still present in sufficient quantity to effectively prevent rust is to perform oil analysis testing or use the specific brand/type of motor oil according to the oil manufacturers specified change intervals.

There are a two brands of premium quality synthetic motor oils on the market that are designed and engineered for extended drain intervals of 25,000 miles/1-year and one brand engineered for up to 35,000 miles/1-year in which, when used according to the oil manufacturer's recommendations, will provide exceptional rust and corrosion prevention for the entire mileage/time interval.

In order to use any motor oil past the oil manufacturer's recommendations oil analysis testing must be used. Oil analysis testing is covered in another section of this website.

Corrosion inhibitors are blended into motor oil and serve the functions of preventing corrosion of internal engine bearings made from a mix of copper, lead, aluminum and tine. The acids formed in the oil are extremely corrosive and are a result of the combustion process of gasoline and diesels fuels as well as the additives that were blended in with the fuel itself. These by-products of combustion are deposited on the cylinder wall portions that are exposed to the combustion flame front above the top of the piston and then carried into other components by the oil.

Direct blow-by is also a cause of acidic contaminants in the oil. The amount of blow-by in a particular engine is dependent on many factors, with the primary one being the effectiveness of the seal between the piston rings to the cylinder. The acids formed as a result of this will corrode internal parts such as bearings, pistons/cylinders/rings, rockers, camshafts, valves, timing gear teeth and other ferrous and non-ferrous components within the engine.

There are two primary types of corrosion inhibitor chemicals and functions: one is for the additive in the oil to chemically bond to the internal parts and provide a sacrificial barrier and the other is to actually neutralize the acids so that the corrosive potency is reduced to a level where it cannot do any internal damage. This additive depletes with time in service.

Common additives for these purposes include Zinc, Phosphorus and Zinc Diethyl Dithiophosphate (ZDDP), Calcium and Barium. Barium Sulfonates and Calcium Phenates are common chemicals that are engineered with a high amount of the alkali metals Barium and Calcium in order to provide adequate neutralizatization capability specifically due to the alkalinity of these metals. Sulfur content in both gasoline and especially diesel fuel are one of the primary causes of acids in a motor oil.

OXIDATION INHIBITORS

Oxidation is the result of oxygen mixing with oil at engine operating temperatures. It is not so much the amount of oxygen absorbed by the oil that is important, but the amount of oxidation products formed. Oxidation causes an increase in oil viscosity as well as the formation of acids, resins, lacquers and varnish on internal parts, and especially on pistons and piston rings. More severe oxidation occurs as engine operating temperatures increase.

The effect of varnish, resins and lacquers on pistons and piston rings can cause a decrease in the amount of heat transfer between the piston and cylinder as well as stuck piston rings, leading to severe engine damage over a period of time. If the temperatures continue to increase to extremes then these deposits will continue to oxidize into very hard carbon type materials. When this hard carbon material meets with combustion residues and water, sludge is formed. Sludge can do further damage such as plug and block critical oil passageways and oil pump pick-up screens.

In order to decrease the effects of oxidation, oxidation inhibitors are used which disrupt the chemical reaction that is responsible for the formation of the oxidation as well as chemicals that actually decompose the oxidation products already formed. The lacquers, resins and varnish are not only formed at high temperatures by the oil, but also a low to medium operating temperatures by the fuel combustion process. There are numerous very complex chemicals that are used as oxidation inhibitors and it is not my intention to go into the detail of what these chemicals actually are. "
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Time is a factor because oil will build up acids and combustion by-products and can corrode internal parts such as bearings. It needs to be drain out.


DING we have a correct answer.
thumbsup2.gif


And this is with ANY oil.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Time is a factor because oil will build up acids and compustion by-products and can corrode internal parts such as bearings. It needs to be drain out.


BINGO.

If a car is used for commuting twice a week for a 100 mile round trip (with no short trips in between) it could probably do a 7500 mile OCI on dino (approx. 9 months). If a car is driven to the supermarket (by a little old lady) 3 times a week (and never fully warms up) it would have a lot of contaminants in the oil that I wouldn't want in there for a year. The car manufacturers put a mileage and a time because they don't know how the car will be used.
This is why the GM oil life monitor is a very good technology advancement, IMO.



I agree. Even though I routinely go 18 months (or more) on our car with a syn blend and am past two years and going for three with a dino oil in a tractor and a syn in a diesel truck. I have a recent UOA on the tractor with the dino at two plus years and it was a pretty stellar UOA. The car and the trucks also have stellar UOAs thus far.

pbm has it right IMO. Whether or not you can do this depends on how the engine is used. Just sitting there is not hugely harmful over reasonable periods if, when driven, it's DRIVEN and well heated up for a decent interval. If the engine is short-hopped and never (or seldom) fully warmed up, it's very hard on the oil (moisture, fuel dilution, etc). But even in the case of posted UOAs of vehicles used in those conditions, very few of them are really horrible (when looked at outside the pedantic microscopic lens of a typical BITOG expert) ( : < )

I can only use my stuff as examples here. The minimum drive for our car is about 20 miles and it gets driven once or twice a week (sometimes not at all). Same for a newish gas pickup and an older diesel. One farm tractor is the tillage unit. When it runs, it's usually working at 75 percent power, or more, for 2-10 hours at a stretch with a disc, chisel plow or cultimulcher behind it. A smaller utility tractor is short-hopped more and used in winter (sometimes having to start at below freezing temps while not plugged in) and I am sticking to one or two years on it, depending on the amount of hard work it gets over the season. I just changed it this fall after a two year interval. It never did reach it's hourly OCI limit. Did not UOA.
 
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I started a thread along the same lines here recently.

IMO, the months recommendation has a lot do with getting into a severe service situation as much as anything else. Reduced miles could indicate shorter trips, increased fuel dilution etc, ie., (as pointed out previously). It's also good for the non Bitoger that can keep track of a time frame rather than miles.

That said, after reading the thoughts on my thread, unless you are into a high severe service percent driving mode, I don't think the months rec is as important as miles. But, I would not void a warranty by stretching the time much if I operated in severe service.
 
In my example my vehicle sat for longer than normal periods of time, but was driven at least 30 minutes before being shut off and parked in the garage again. Those 30 minutes were usually all highway miles, under perfect conditions. The best miles a vehicle can be driven. Short hops and I'd be changing every 6 months.
 
Because miles are only an approximation of wear. Stop and go miles wear on an engine much more than highway miles. Same for miles while towing or carrying heavy loads.
 
Originally Posted By: 1993_VG30E_GXE
Can someone explain to me why they say for eg. 12,000 KM or 6 MONTHS Whatever comes first.

How is it that the time affects the OCI, when oil can be sitting in containers for 5 yrs and not degrade much. Why is it that as soon as it goes in the engine we are on the 6 Months count down?


I don't know any manufacturer that has a time limit as short as six months. Nevertheless, the time limit is to conservatively cover the worst case scenario which is very short trips with the oil not getting up to temp'.
You can certainly go on mileage alone if you don't do predominately short trips particularly in the winter.
There are plenty of high mileage 2 and 3 year long UOA's that are excellent.
 
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