why does bmw require 10w60 ?

[mva]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

We're getting away from the main point that the TWS 10W-60 is much heavier than necessary for all street us in NA and most track use.


There have been plenty of North American S54 engine bearing failures. BMW quickly changed the oil recommendation to 10W60 for these engines and revised the bearing design half way through 2003.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1026994&highlight=s54+bearings

 

[ammolab]

BMW is not alone in the use of TWS 10W-60.. Audi requires this type oil in the R8 GT.

 

[jaj]

To quote Doug Hillary TODAY:

"I used Castrol "R" Syn 10W-60 in Kubota high speed light diesels used on Reefer vans with great success. This was closely followed by ThermoKing and Kubota for a long time"

Basically, TWS, the direct descendant and successor to Castrol "R" Synthetic, is an engine oil with nearly magical powers. Pretenders need not apply.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
jaj - yes there is actually two versions today - a PAO (via Castrol) and the "ester" (via BMW) - the ester version is the original. It was originally of 15W-50 viscosity, red in colour and of a castor base - ahhhhhhh that exhaust smell......

My close relationship with the ester version of this product goes back into the 1970s. A Senior Castrol Engineer at the Nurburgring told me last year that I am virtually the only survivor with the original Technical background to the product. Now that dates me............

 

[aquariuscsm]

Hey Doug,how do you feel about the current Castrol Edge/Syntec 5W50? Is it a quality oil?

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
aquariuscsm - Yes good products - the Edge has the edge!

At the Goodwood Revival in England this year the "buzz" was for Castrol's range of products. Their "R" series synthetics are still the cry in Classic cars and bikes too!

 

[aquariuscsm]

Thanks Doug! ;^)

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
aquariuscsm - Yes good products - the Edge has the edge!

At the Goodwood Revival in England this year the "buzz" was for Castrol's range of products. Their "R" series synthetics are still the cry in Classic cars and bikes too!


Are the "R" Series Castrol oils available in the N American market?

 

[dparm]

I thought the R-series was the castor oil?

 

[dparm]

Funny thing is how BMW says consumption will increase if you water down the TWS with lighter stuff like M1 0w40 or even the BMW 5w30.

In my mind, constantly "refreshing" the oil seems like a great way to extend the OCI and keep the add pack from getting depleted.

Still, I would like to see some independent testing to show whether or not other 10w60s are acceptable substitutes, or how the cars do with M1 0w40. What is the big freakin secret in TWS that no one else has figured out? Awful lot of boutique oil makers these days (even Redline has 10w60).

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Funny thing is how BMW says consumption will increase if you water down the TWS with lighter stuff like M1 0w40 or even the BMW 5w30.

In my mind, constantly "refreshing" the oil seems like a great way to extend the OCI and keep the add pack from getting depleted.

That's true, although there is also a side effect. Increased consumption means more deposits are being left behind as the oil gets burned off/consumed.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Funny thing is how BMW says consumption will increase if you water down the TWS with lighter stuff like M1 0w40 or even the BMW 5w30.

In my mind, constantly "refreshing" the oil seems like a great way to extend the OCI and keep the add pack from getting depleted.

Still, I would like to see some independent testing to show whether or not other 10w60s are acceptable substitutes, or how the cars do with M1 0w40. What is the big freakin secret in TWS that no one else has figured out? Awful lot of boutique oil makers these days (even Redline has 10w60).


dparm: The M cars that use TWS also tend to use a lot of oil, so it doesn't seem to "solve" that problem. And there are some BMW engines that don't seem to use much oil regardless. Mine uses VERY little oil, even though I'm using M1 0w40 and not the coveted TWS.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: dparm
Funny thing is how BMW says consumption will increase if you water down the TWS with lighter stuff like M1 0w40 or even the BMW 5w30.

In my mind, constantly "refreshing" the oil seems like a great way to extend the OCI and keep the add pack from getting depleted.

Still, I would like to see some independent testing to show whether or not other 10w60s are acceptable substitutes, or how the cars do with M1 0w40. What is the big freakin secret in TWS that no one else has figured out? Awful lot of boutique oil makers these days (even Redline has 10w60).


dparm: The M cars that use TWS also tend to use a lot of oil, so it doesn't seem to "solve" that problem. And there are some BMW engines that don't seem to use much oil regardless. Mine uses VERY little oil, even though I'm using M1 0w40 and not the coveted TWS.
less than ideal break-in cause of this?

 

[OVERKILL]

I don't know. I suppose it is a possibility, though I know with the S62, the earlier engines (pre 03/00) use a lot more oil in general than the later engines.

 

[CATERHAM]

For fast street use, use a light premium 40wt oil like M1 0W-40 and keep the oil level on full. What could be simplier.
You'll never test the minimum operational oil viscosity requirements of any M engine.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
For fast street use, use a light premium 40wt oil like M1 0W-40 and keep the oil level on full. What could be simplier.
You'll never test the minimum operational oil viscosity requirements of any M engine.


Good point. Even wailing on mine, I've never got it to 100C with M1 0w40 in it.

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted By: dparm

Still, I would like to see some independent testing to show whether or not other 10w60s are acceptable substitutes, or how the cars do with M1 0w40. What is the big freakin secret in TWS that no one else has figured out? Awful lot of boutique oil makers these days (even Redline has 10w60).


Testing and certification of "other 10W-60s" would be interesting indeed, but I am going to continue to use TWS in my S54 powered M Coupe. One oil change a year so..no big $$ deal and those "boutique" 10W-60s all cost about the same or MORE than TWS.

My car burns no oil with yearly/6000mile OCIs on TWS

Why change?

 

[CATERHAM]

Now what you'll need to do to complete the test is take the M5's and drive flat out (I think the M5 is electronically limited to only 255 km/h), about half an hour should be long enough, to see how hot the oil gets and to measure the oil consumption.

And if Ontario's finest manages to catch up to you (when you finally pull off the highway) simply say you were conducting a test strictly for engineering/scientific purposes. That should work!!!

 

[dparm]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Now what you'll need to do to complete the test is take the M5's and drive flat out (I think the M5 is electronically limited to only 255 km/h), about half an hour should be long enough, to see how hot the oil gets and to measure the oil consumption.

And if Ontario's finest manages to catch up to you (when you finally pull off the highway) simply say you were conducting a test strictly for engineering/scientific purposes. That should work!!!

 

[yannis]

I 've read that Motul developed their 20W60 to address the fuel dilution in the oil they were facing in LeMans Circuit.
The dilution was so heavy that by the end of the race only the 20W60 could handle it.
Maybe that's one of the reasons behind BMW's decision .