why do people still buy non-synthetic?

[JANDSZIRKLE]

We have 4 vehicles... two nice ones, two beaters.

Beaters get dino or syn blend our nice ones get synthetic.

I think it comes down too use and application really. Our beaters get run daily, work trips, short trips, etc.

The nice ones get at least once a week runs, vacation trips, all holiday trips, etc.

I dont mind abusing our beaters and using dino or synblends, if they implode today, we just go on a hunt for another beater. Our coworkers and friends are in the belief you have too have payments and the newest thing.

Im not a fan of payments and really dont mind driving a vehicle thats been decently maintained that has over 200k miles.

 

[Ayrton]

I have one old car that I have to put "conventional" in whatever that means because the big name full-synthetics makes its leak 10x + worse. Believe me, I've tried several times, even HM Synthetics, and the one little drop becomes a puddle. It blows my mind synthetic can make that much of a difference.

I have a family member whose truck must also use a conventional because they burn significantly more oil if they use synthetic.

Now, in newer car, I use synthetic!

 

[Smokescreen]

I drive 95% highway at 55mph to 65mph from a garage every day, arguably the easiest task ever given to a vehicle. Lubrication duties that a top notch conventional oil like PYB can do with massive overkill. PYB is 1/3 to 1/4 the price of any synthetic when I buy large numbers on sale. I have no need in my current situation, so the only time I will use synthetic is in the winter season...if we ever have a real winter here again.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
I've noticed that the less expensive synthetics like Supertech and Mag1 cost about the same as the higher-end conventional oils like GTX and Pennzoil. Why do people buy these non-synthetics when you can get a synthetic for the same price? Are they superior to cheap synthetics?
Because they both protect the same, under same conditions and oci's (not super extended). I personally have a stash of dino oil that I bought on sale so I will run dino until that's gone. If I had a 500HP car (porsche, benz amg) then I would run syn no doubt. For my I6, dino will work just fine.

 

[jimbrewer]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I have to grin when I read about the cost equation of using conventional over synthetics. I've seen some that will quibble over the cost of 5 or 6 quarts of oil, but have no problem spending gobs of money on stuff for that same vehicle that will do nothing more than boost their ego. I do not see it as extensively here, but other forums are loaded with threads quibbling over price of an oil, while the next thread folks are adding cat back exhausts, cold air intakes, raising the vehicle 5 inches and throwing on tires that were better meant for a class 8 commercial truck...


I have seen somewhat the opposite in the past, though I will confess to not having visited an automotive forum besides this one for many years. On many enthusiast boards, the default oil choice is "Mobile 1" (sic), because anyone who doesn't use Mobil 1 obviously doesn't love their car as much as they do. It's almost a club membership card; if cost is *any* object in terms of an oil or filter, you obviously don't care for your car like "we" do in this "club".

I've seen so many examples of "Mobile 1 oil and filter" being changed every 3,000 miles for "maximum protection". Many years ago, kids would advertise their car as having "full synthetics", a badge of identification that you had a real "car guy" on your hands there...


Sure, but what I don't get is why do so few of these people use Mobil 1 EP? I can certainly see the sentiment of "Just pay the extra $5 per quart for the best and be done with it." But then why do so many of them balk at the extra 60 cents per quart for the EP? It is definitely a superior product to regular Mobil 1, and the extra price premium is justified by the extra content. So why do so many stop short for the extra 60 cents?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: jimbrewer
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I have to grin when I read about the cost equation of using conventional over synthetics. I've seen some that will quibble over the cost of 5 or 6 quarts of oil, but have no problem spending gobs of money on stuff for that same vehicle that will do nothing more than boost their ego. I do not see it as extensively here, but other forums are loaded with threads quibbling over price of an oil, while the next thread folks are adding cat back exhausts, cold air intakes, raising the vehicle 5 inches and throwing on tires that were better meant for a class 8 commercial truck...


I have seen somewhat the opposite in the past, though I will confess to not having visited an automotive forum besides this one for many years. On many enthusiast boards, the default oil choice is "Mobile 1" (sic), because anyone who doesn't use Mobil 1 obviously doesn't love their car as much as they do. It's almost a club membership card; if cost is *any* object in terms of an oil or filter, you obviously don't care for your car like "we" do in this "club".

I've seen so many examples of "Mobile 1 oil and filter" being changed every 3,000 miles for "maximum protection". Many years ago, kids would advertise their car as having "full synthetics", a badge of identification that you had a real "car guy" on your hands there...


Sure, but what I don't get is why do so few of these people use Mobil 1 EP? I can certainly see the sentiment of "Just pay the extra $5 per quart for the best and be done with it." But then why do so many of them balk at the extra 60 cents per quart for the EP? It is definitely a superior product to regular Mobil 1, and the extra price premium is justified by the extra content. So why do so many stop short for the extra 60 cents?


Because they are buying a name. Mobil 1 is an average oil,no better or worse than what's on the shelf beside it. The market has caught up and in many cases past them in the quality department.
Quaker State Ultimate Durability is at the very least on par with M1 and can be had for less money. Pennzoil platinum is at least as good as if not better in every application I've seen it used in vs the M1 counterpart when comparing wear metals in the uoa.
Pennzoil ultra is beyond any M1 offering,EP or otherwise. The only oil I feel keeps M1 relevant is their 0w-40. Its a world class oil than can be put up against anything out there but that's it.
Its like castrol. Belgian castrol seems pretty good but German castrol even though an old formula will still stand against today's offerings.
Only in America is M1 even considered a top shelf oil. The rest of the world doesn't just believe the hype.
If shell would hire a real marketing team Mobil would exit stage right. Ultra is a world class oil no one can even find. That in itself is failure.
Shell for the win.

 

[Garak]

In fairness to M1, one must remember that for just about any application, European or otherwise, there almost certainly will be an M1 offering meeting the specification. We do have the Chrysler exception, the 5w-50 Ford spec exception, and a certain Ford/Jaguar specification that seems to have slipped through the cracks with the switch to SN in 5w30.

The thing I like about Mobil's line is that it is, for the most part, fairly global. The M1 5w30 here has its SN/GF-5, along with the relevant ACEA specifications. They have offerings for just about every conceivable diesel specification on the planet.

But, as you point out, much of that is marketing, and effective marketing. Shell has too many repetitive offerings. How many SN/GF-5 5w30 oils do they really need to market? Mobil has three in Canada (Mobil 1000, Mobil 2000, and M1). Shell has at least three conventional offerings and at least four synthetic offerings, plus a HM variant each for Pennzoil, QS, and Formula Shell (though in fairness, those are not all SN/GF-5). Their European stuff is rare as hen's teeth in North America. PU is MIA. As great as their HDEOs are, the Rotella line is trailing the Delvac line in certifications, particularly when it comes to European specs that one can conceivably see in North America.

Now, if Shell could straighten up a few of these things, along with making their warranties a little less gimmicky, they might be onto something. As for availability, that's another issue where Shell shot itself in the foot, and they planted the seeds for that a long time ago. Many years ago, they began shutting down Shell distributors. While Co-op, Petro-Canada, and Imperial Oil distributors were maintaining or even increasing their visibility and locations and network, Shell decided to entrust way too much into retail players out of their control. Sure, one can buy Rotella just about anywhere. You can't go into a hardware store without finding Formula Shell. I can buy PYB at Esso gas stations, of all places. Just about every parts store, even the independents, has SOPUS products. Yet, Canadian Tire and Walmart have decided against stocking Pennzoil Ultra, and for the vast majority of buyers, that ends the discussion.

They need to rebrand PU and make it available throughout North America. On the Canadian side of things, Walmart and Canadian Tire need a kick in the pants about their pricing. You've pointed out that NAPA wants $71 a jug for PU. That's utterly ridiculous. This 100%+ Canadian markup really has to go.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Because they are buying a name. Mobil 1 is an average oil,no better or worse than what's on the shelf beside it. The market has caught up and in many cases past them in the quality department.
Quaker State Ultimate Durability is at the very least on par with M1 and can be had for less money. Pennzoil platinum is at least as good as if not better in every application I've seen it used in vs the M1 counterpart when comparing wear metals in the uoa.
Pennzoil ultra is beyond any M1 offering,EP or otherwise. The only oil I feel keeps M1 relevant is their 0w-40. Its a world class oil than can be put up against anything out there but that's it.
Its like castrol. Belgian castrol seems pretty good but German castrol even though an old formula will still stand against today's offerings.
Only in America is M1 even considered a top shelf oil. The rest of the world doesn't just believe the hype.
If shell would hire a real marketing team Mobil would exit stage right. Ultra is a world class oil no one can even find. That in itself is failure.
Shell for the win.


Aren't statements that say one synthetic is better than another as generic, or at worse, based on faith rather than facts, as the much maligned statements that synthetic is better than conventional?

Wouldn't you need huge data sets like dnewton has to be conclusive with such claims?

And doesn't application matter? M1 0w40 is probably better than a non approved oil in German cars because it meets specs and testing that manufacturers require, but does that make it better than SuperTech 5w20 in a Ford?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Because they are buying a name. Mobil 1 is an average oil,no better or worse than what's on the shelf beside it. The market has caught up and in many cases past them in the quality department.
Quaker State Ultimate Durability is at the very least on par with M1 and can be had for less money. Pennzoil platinum is at least as good as if not better in every application I've seen it used in vs the M1 counterpart when comparing wear metals in the uoa.
Pennzoil ultra is beyond any M1 offering,EP or otherwise. The only oil I feel keeps M1 relevant is their 0w-40. Its a world class oil than can be put up against anything out there but that's it.
Its like castrol. Belgian castrol seems pretty good but German castrol even though an old formula will still stand against today's offerings.
Only in America is M1 even considered a top shelf oil. The rest of the world doesn't just believe the hype.
If shell would hire a real marketing team Mobil would exit stage right. Ultra is a world class oil no one can even find. That in itself is failure.
Shell for the win.


Aren't statements that say one synthetic is better than another as generic, or at worse, based on faith rather than facts, as the much maligned statements that synthetic is better than conventional?

Wouldn't you need huge data sets like dnewton has to be conclusive with such claims?

And doesn't application matter? M1 0w40 is probably better than a non approved oil in German cars because it meets specs and testing that manufacturers require, but does that make it better than SuperTech 5w20 in a Ford?


I make that statement after observing every uoa that is posted here. All of them.
So I suggest picking at someone else formerly banned member with a new user name. I made my comment based on what I see posted here and the wear metals in the oil vs the universal averages taking into consideration the unit averages as well.
Is there anything else or would you like to pick at something else.
Better yet ill put you on ignore so I don't have to read your drivel,please do same.

Thanks

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
If shell would hire a real marketing team Mobil would exit stage right. Ultra is a world class oil no one can even find. That in itself is failure.
Shell for the win ?

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
I make that statement after observing every uoa that is posted here. All of them. I made my comment based on what I see posted here and the wear metals in the oil vs the universal averages taking into consideration the unit averages as well


I apologize Clevy. I hadn't realized you'd employed rigorous statistical methods prior to stating your conclusions.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Ultra is a world class oil no one can even find. That in itself is failure.
Shell for the win ?

Clevy makes a very valid point, though. I wouldn't go so far as to say they'd put XOM in serious danger, but look at his situation. He's not a huge Mobil fan but is using some of their products right now simply out of availability and pricing. $71 per 5 L of Ultra at NAPA Canada is silly. For whatever reason, our Walmarts and Canadian Tires seem to be able to stock M1 EP at its ridiculous prices (oddly enough, it's 40% off at CT now, I fell out of my chair), yet they cannot stock PU, and rarely have the high end Castrol, whatever it is they call it these days.

Keep in mind that the top end Castrol, M1 EP, and PU were all around the same price point here when and where available. The Mobil stuff is still around. The one retailer that carries Ultra wants $20 more per jug than Royal Purple retails for.

 

[Mystic]

I am going to just put you on ignore also TrevorS. You are supposed to be a new person here with only a few posts and yet you talk about how dnewton3 has done a lot of statistical analysis. You certainly know a lot for a 'new' person. And you have already attacked me just because of what news program I like to watch and you have attacked Clevy. I think Clevy is probably right and the best thing is just to ignore you.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: Clevy
I make that statement after observing every uoa that is posted here. All of them. I made my comment based on what I see posted here and the wear metals in the oil vs the universal averages taking into consideration the unit averages as well


I apologize Clevy. I hadn't realized you'd employed rigorous statistical methods prior to stating your conclusions.
LMAO!! Yeah all of that stuff Chevy stated is hog wash. No facts, even though an engine using ST syn would be protected the same way as an engine filled with "world class PU" under normal driving conditions lol.

 

[NightRiderQ45]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
I am going to just put you on ignore also TrevorS. You are supposed to be a new person here with only a few posts and yet you talk about how dnewton3 has done a lot of statistical analysis. You certainly know a lot for a 'new' person. And you have already attacked me just because of what news program I like to watch and you have attacked Clevy. I think Clevy is probably right and the best thing is just to ignore you.
Guess you missed the part where Clevy attacked him first huh? I think this statement is just personal on your end.

 

[Mystic]

I don't know who you are NightRiderQ45 but at this website people come here to find out about motor oil, oil filters, various auto maintenance related subjects. People want to come here and just be able to enjoy themselves discussing and debating motor oil and those discussions and debates should be friendly and not hostile.

People get tired if they reply in a post and they then experience personal attacks and are called silly names because they happen to watch a certain cable news network. And people get tired of people who get banned here and keep coming back with new user names only to do the same things they did to get themselves banned in the first place.

How about if we discuss motor oil here and other auto related subjects and drop all of the personal attacks, silly name calling, and other nonsense?

 

[KCJeep]

I agree with Clevy. I am no fan of Mobil 1 mostly because the M1 Koolaid drinkers here really turn me off. Today it's an average synthetic with exceptional marketing of an unexceptional product, and rabid fan base that will push it/make excuses for it regardless of outcome.

I would still buy it and use it if I thought it was the right match for one of the 5 cars own or service but I'd not be delusional about what I'd be getting in the process. Despite the antics of the fanboy crowd here I actually find the M1 EP offereings pretty interesting and the results appear to be worth the extra coin.

 

[Mystic]

I used to use Mobil 1 a lot. But after seeing a lot of UOAs and VOAs here I still think the Mobil 1 0W-40 is really good but I think today that there are other synthetic oils that might be better than most Mobil 1 oils. I like Valvoline Synpower, Pennzoil Ultra (if you can find it), etc.

 

[kschachn]

So you are not a fan of M1 due to people on this site? And it is an unexceptional product? What do you base that on?

I use a lot of what's on sale, including M1 but your statements are unsubstantiated.

Regardless of what outcome? What are you talking about?

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
I agree with Clevy.I am no fan of Mobil 1 mostly because the M1 Koolaid drinkers here really turn me off. Today it's an average synthetic with exceptional marketing of an unexceptional product, and rabid fan base that will push it/make excuses for it regardless of outcome.

 

[HTSS_TR]

I'm no fan of any brand, I buy whichever is on sale (and with rebate), I agree that M1 0W40 is the best A3/B3 oil at $5/qt in 5-qt jug at WM. Is there a better A3/B3 oil than M1 0W40 ? May be, but at a much higher price and hard to find at local stores.

Shell has excellent PU but their marketing was a total failure, almost impossible to find PU 5W40 at local store and many WM stores dropped all PU grades together.