Why do Europeans use heavier oils than Americans

[FCD]

So i have 2 friends here in Spain which have Mustangs , one is i believe a 65 convertible with a stock 170ci I6 in it , the other is a hardtop 71 with a built 351W pushing around 350-400 Hp, it seems that most americans i've asked would use 10w30 or 10w40 in these situations, but instead they run 20w50 with good results, is it because of the hotter climate we have in spain?, post your thoughts

 

[Silk]

Only thing I'd worry about is stripping the pencil oil pump drive with the heavier oil. The rest of the engine can handle it.

 

[FCD]

I see your point but my Ford Capri specs 20w50 from new even though these engines are notorious for the shaft rounding off or even breaking ( that's why it's on it's second engine ) but i don't worry about it too much since i live in a warm climate where temps rarely go below 0c

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
So i have 2 friends here in Spain which have Mustangs , one is i believe a 65 convertible with a stock 170ci I6 in it , the other is a hardtop 71 with a built 351W pushing around 350-400 Hp, it seems that most americans i've asked would use 10w30 or 10w40 in these situations, but instead they run 20w50 with good results, is it because of the hotter climate we have in spain?, post your thoughts


In American OEM's OM ,selection of oil grades is 'determined' by CAFE (legislatively and administratively ) and 'business' considerations of stakeholders ....... ....
and OM monster is real and kicking in US .............
with prevalent 'Manufacturer knows best' phenomenon in Bitog most of the times ...........
and OEM 'false claims' paying (misleading) lip service to lower wear and improved durability in it's oil selections ..........................
when individual actual applications calls for reconsiderations of OEM's recommendations ...........

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: Silk
Only thing I'd worry about is stripping the pencil oil pump drive with the heavier oil. The rest of the engine can handle it.


Hopefully the built 351W in question has an ARP oil pump drive. Even on a stock rebuild, that should be the a requirement.

 

[SR5]

I posted this before but It's the same in Australia, we run heavier oils than would be typical for the USA. Even identical vehicles like the Jeep Patriot are spec'd 5W-40 in Australia yet 5W-20 in north America.

I think the governments of various countries like to encourage people to be green and use less resources, but they go about it in different ways. In the USA I believe they like low petrol (gas) prices but they encourage car fuel economy via CAFE rules. In Australia we don't have CAFE laws, but we have a very high tax on petrol to encourage people to use less fuel.

In Australia there is less direct federal government pressure on the car companies to lower fuel consumption, rather the pressure is on the consumer via fuel prices. Of course this make economical cars more desirable to the average consumer. But I also think it allows the manufacturer to base their oil recommendation more on engineer advice and less on corporate taxation advice. I hear the USA has a "gas guzzler tax" and "Corporate Average Fuel Economy" standards etc.

 

[FCD]

ok now i understand

 

[Garak]

Aside from CAFE, climate has always been a consideration in North America. Incidentally, even before CAFE, General Motors was very much against 10w-40 grades, with 10w30 being the preferred option, even over thirty years ago. It's easy to blame CAFE, and the role is significant, but North America was trending to thinner oils a long time ago.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: FordCapriDriver
So i have 2 friends here in Spain which have Mustangs , one is i believe a 65 convertible with a stock 170ci I6 in it , the other is a hardtop 71 with a built 351W pushing around 350-400 Hp, it seems that most americans i've asked would use 10w30 or 10w40 in these situations, but instead they run 20w50 with good results, is it because of the hotter climate we have in spain?, post your thoughts


In American OEM's OM ,selection of oil grades is 'determined' by CAFE (legislatively and administratively ) and 'business' considerations of stakeholders ....... ....
and OM monster is real and kicking in US .............
with prevalent 'Manufacturer knows best' phenomenon in Bitog most of the times ...........
and OEM 'false claims' paying (misleading) lip service to lower wear and improved durability in it's oil selections ..........................
when individual actual applications calls for reconsiderations of OEM's recommendations ...........

Complete and utter nonsense.

 

[supton]

When did Europe start trending towards longer OCI's? I can't imagine long OCI's on a carb motor, but I wonder if that vs the American "must change every 3k!" comes into play.

 

[bigjl]

Europe slowly but surely went over to longer OCI in the mid 2000's from what I can see.

One of the first that I had experience was the Vauxhall Vectra with the 2.2 direct injected petrol engine which had an 18k miles interval.

From memory it also had a 1year stipulation aswell so in reality only drivers doing lots of miles even got close to the 18k

The same 2.2 lump is common in US market cars but not sure what the maintenance schedules are.

Citroen and Peugeot went done the (I think) 18k or 2 year path for a while with their smaller engined cars.

Though it should be pointed out that use of semi synth and full synth oils has been prevalent for many years.

Lots of manufacturers has long OCI but also had Severe Service Schedules in the handbook which tended to reduce the OCI massively.

A lot of people didn't read the handbook and their case suffered as a result.

Being a bit OTT with oil changes I have always done an oil change at half interval, even on cars I bought new that were under warranty.

I always stick to a minimum of semi synth but more usually full synth.

Being a Costco member means I can get Castrol Magnatec, Castrol Edge, Mobil 1 and Chevron Supreme at decent prices (for the UK) so saving money using inferior oils became irrelevant to me nearly 10years ago.

 

[wemay]

1. Longer OCI in EU
2. Better fuel quality (lower sulfur content)
3. CAFE

 

[FCD]

Here the 3000 mile rule of thumb is still followed a lot but only by people who own classic cars

 

[JSRT4]

CAFE standards certainly motivated the manufacturers, but on the flipside of the coin they also did their homework and found that thinner oils can work reliably in North America.

If you remember all of the doom and gloom predictions when 20 weight oils came out, they have mostly been untrue. With many years under our belts I don't believe that we've seen an increase in failed motors or increased engine wear, at least not to the point where it has been quantified, but please correct me if I am wrong.

I used to think that Europe was more advanced and using more reasonable OCI's , and we may have been getting the shaft. But as it stands now perhaps Europe is late to the game on this one, and North America is actually more advanced on this matter. Of course I could be totally wrong, but that's just my 2 pennies.

One other note, Europe has been using a larger percentage of turbo diesel motors for many years in a multitude of vehicles. In many European countries the climate can be warmer, with more mountainous driving conditions ?.

 

[splinter]

I'm a European-American that prefers 'lower viscosity' motor oils as a result of reading BITOG. Selectively.

Our learned friend shannow posted a Honda document showing typical operating conditions by country/continent.
'Europeans' tend to drive at higher revs and with greater total loads/strain on engines than Yanks. fwiw

 

[robertcope]

Originally Posted By: splinter

'Europeans' tend to drive at higher revs and with greater total loads/strain on engines than Yanks. fwiw


I am not going to dispute Honda research, but nearly every time I've ridden in a car in Europe, they lugged the [censored] of the motor. I've noticed it in Central America, too. I assume they're trying to save fuel, but it sure it painful to witness. My sample size is terrible, of course.

robert

 

[BrocLuno]

Lugging is even harder on bearings and needs a thicker oil film. It's both ends of the RPM spectrum that can benefit from slightly more viscous oils...

As far as Ford shearing oil pump drives - yeah been there a few times. It's always the application of higher RPM's with cold thick oil...

20W is not very thick at Spanish or Calif temps (baring the Sierra's...) and cold flow viscosities are MUCH higher than running viscosities at temp - even for a 50. It's no big deal. Just keep the RPM's reasonable until the engine is up to temp

 

[crazyoildude]

a thinner oil circulates faster in most cases. It also gets into the valve guides a little better and in some cases the bearings.. We see ford engines running over 300,000 miles on 5w20 Same with some Honda engines although the last 2 oil changes i did on my Moms 05 Mercury Grand Marquis was with 5 quarts of 5w20 and 1 quart of 5w30 QSUD and it is fine. In my 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe with the 3.5 i run 5w30 qsud all year and it runs very nice.

 

[BrocLuno]

Those engines are all run in the USA ...

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Aside from CAFE, climate has always been a consideration in North America. Incidentally, even before CAFE, General Motors was very much against 10w-40 grades, with 10w30 being the preferred option, even over thirty years ago. It's easy to blame CAFE, and the role is significant, but North America was trending to thinner oils a long time ago.
GM was not happy with how long the dino 10 w 40 stayed a 10w 40. THe same problem existed with the 10 w 50 dino back then.