Why are California roads SO screwed up?

[Ed_Flecko]

I'm steering clear of any political inferences, and I mean this literally...why is the quality of our city streets SO poor? I've lived a few different places around the United States, and I don't think I've EVER seen anywhere that the streets and roads are in such bad shape.

I've heard on the radio that the average person in Sacramento spends something like ~$800 per year in road related vehicle repairs. When I DO see repairs of our local streets being performed, the streets, IMHO, are often only marginally better than they were before the "repairs" were undertaken. The surface of the street feels like you're driving on a Ruffles potato chip, sewer covers aren't level with the surrounding asphalt, and the list goes on. If that's not enough, the "repairs" will probably last, maybe, 2-3 years before they seems just as bad as before.

For those of you who are familiar with asphalt, concrete, etc., does the problem lie with the folks who are doing the "repairs"? Is it our weather that contributes to the degradation of the road surface, etc.? Thoughts?

I have long wondered why our (at least in Sacramento) roads SUCK?

Ed

 

[Lyman]

And they spend more $$ per mile then most other states. It comes down to corruption. Funds are rerouted to other areas. State and local workers not required to actually do the job. Have you seen the videos of workers sleeping in vehicles at work sites?

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Yes, I have! But, when workers DO perform the repairs, why is the final product marginally better than before they started...and it, typically, doesn't last long?

Ed

 

[Kestas]

We do have the technology to make roads better than what we have now. But they aren't made properly. So by default your answer would have political ramifications.

For one, the way we pick contractors needs to be redesigned. In some parts of Europe, once to job is finished, the contractor is given only partial payment for the work done. The remaining monies are set aside for repairs over a number of years. If the contractor did a good job they'll get a good chunk of money at the end of the period. Plenty of incentive for the contractor to do the best job for the money. Contractors in the US don't have this incentive. They just lay down concrete and leave any problems down the road for the public to take care of.

In SE Michigan, it doesn't help that the concrete industry is purportedly run by the local mafia.

 

[PimTac]

You are not alone. Countless times I've seen roads and highways here in WA repaved and then torn up to add utilities and such. The once perfect road surface is gone.

A recent project by my house took a good part of 8-9 months to redo about a mile or so of a main thoroughfare. The end result looks nice but driving on the road surface is choppy. The municipality's answer to this question was that they used a larger aggregate in the concrete mix. Bullhockey. It is obvious they used smaller pour patterns and they are not level.

Then there is the major freeway bridge that ended up 8 inches off when they were finishing it. Oops.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Repairing concrete roadbed is more time intensive vs aphalt. With asphalt the existing pavement is just chewed up (recycled back at the asphalt plant) and new pavement is laid right behind it. Concrete is much more expensive because it involves determining which sections are bad, cutting them out with a big saw and/or using a jackhammer to break it up, re-pour and then polish.

IIRC there's a lot of concrete roadbed in Calif.

 

[KrisZ]

Don't forget that a lot of gas tax dollars are spent on many other things, but road infrastructure.

 

[JLTD]

I think CA is not used to having to repair roads and it comes down to efficiency. In the northeastern states, they have to repave roads every few years. In CA, roads never have to be totally repaved due to weather, so it's spot repairs here and there for wear and tear.

 

[user52165]

A big part of it is the "P" word.............................. pensions.

Funds get diverted to pay the huge escalation of pensions. And it will only get worse. Some CA retired workers can get 90% or even more of their salary and benefits for life.

 

[PandaBear]

1) Cost of living (i.e. construction workers making 120k vs 60k everywhere else in the US)
2) Environmental regulation, studies, people complains about a lot of stuff like harmful chemicals, birds dying, habitats, etc.
3) Traffic, lots of traffics, so you can only work on the roads at night or non commute hours, that adds a lot of cost
4) Politics, corruptions, etc, but that's everywhere
5) Pension, worker safety standard, etc
6) Lawsuits, people love to sue here and we have a lot of lawyers. Especially when rich neighborhood dwellers are involved and can't get their ways, lawsuits are guaranteed.

I wouldn't say CA has the worst road but it is definitely not 1st world standard.

 

[diyjake]

Come to PA, then you won't say you have the worst roads in California. I used to live in Cali and the roads are way better than PA.

 

[billt460]

If you look at most of the liberal blue states, their infrastructure is falling apart and there is no money to fix it. Illinois, Minnesota, New York, California, Oregon, Washington, New Jersey, are all in the same financial mess. But they seem to have money to fund every give away program known to man. Pensions are also a big problem.

Illinois property taxes are skyrocketing, trying to keep teacher pensions solvent. And they are failing. Chicago's credit rating is hovering at junk bond status. Many of these states are also experiencing mass exodus, as people are fleeing the ridiculous taxes and cost of living. It's all going to collapse. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Andrew1972]

Comes down to collective priorities of the state. Politics play a role however there is no model state out there whatever leaning. Every state seems to benefit from something from another state all with unique priorities and populations.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted by Ed_Flecko
...why is the quality of our city streets SO poor? I've lived a few different places around the United States, and I don't think I've EVER seen anywhere that the streets and roads are in such bad shape.

It's because of the harsh winter

I personally think it's the lack of skill from workers and a lack of competence in supervisors/people in charge.

 

[Ed_Flecko]

Originally Posted by diyjake
Come to PA, then you won't say you have the worst roads in California. I used to live in Cali and the roads are way better than PA.


...oh man, that's just hard to believe!

 

[Andrew1972]

What do you drive that bothers the vehicle and you so much? My best riding vehicle for rough roads thus far is my Acura MDX.

The stiffer suspension takes massive frost heaves, holes etc with grace.

A sample of our roads I think not much of:

 

[Kestas]

When traveling, once I leave Michigan, I'm amazed at how much better the roads are elsewhere.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by billt460
If you look at most of the liberal blue states, their infrastructure is falling apart and there is no money to fix it. Illinois, Minnesota, New York, California, Oregon, Washington, New Jersey, are all in the same financial mess. But they seem to have money to fund every give away program known to man. Pensions are also a big problem.

If you look at federal tax dollars flows, those same blue maker states send more tax revenue to the red taker states.
Maybe if the federal tax stream were turned off for the takers, the makers could keep their money and use it in-state.....

 

[csandste]

Missouri has one of the lowest gas taxes and largest systems. It's large because lettered farm to market roads, which should be a county responsibility were moved up to the state about fifty years ago. So, the pitch is, "We have the 48th highest tax, but the seventh largest highway system." My county's building represents 80% of starts in eastern Missouri. Taxpayers have to improve numbered (should be) state roads, cause they're out there in East Elbow repairing potholes on roads that get 100 cars a day. Guess what, once state government starts doing something, it's next to impossible to move it back. So, no new state taxes for anything as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Dave1027]

It's because California voters are suckers. They voted down Prop 6 in favor of higher gax taxes and registration fees. They were told the roads would be fixed if they left the increases in place. They were lied to.