Why Amsoil air filters won't cut it

[metroplex]

The "authority" on air filters speaks:

I was watching Alias last night, the episode was "Passage"

A team comprised of Irina, Sydney, and Jack (Irina and Jack are sydney's parents) are in India trying to retrieve the plutonium cores. Anyhow, one of their contacts in India has a truck for them to use. irina (played by Lena Olin), asks him - "what kind of air filter does it have?" THe contact replies, "a foam filter"

Lena Olin gives this nasty look, "that won't do!! It'll clog up before we reach our destination!"

She gets into an Argument with Jack and eventually they take off w/ the foam-filter equipped truck. 10 miles before they reach their drop point, the truck stalls out.

So the writers of Alias say, foam filters are bad for dusty conditions! LOL

BTW if I remember correctly, the race cars used in the desert races do use K&N filters. If you used foam filters for anything they'd clog up real fast. My HEPA filter at home uses a foam pre-filter for the paper panel filter and the foam clogs up in 3 months and was designed to be thrown out.
I use foam filters for my PC air intake and they clog within a few weeks.

The whole point of a K&N is that it won't clog to a point where hardly any air gets through. The entire filter can flow 800+ cfm (doesn't mean you get +5-15hp) so if the center part or any major part is totally 100% clogged, the sides can still flow an adequate amount of air.

From every K&N/cotton-gauze users experience, no normally aspirated application has had an engine failure using K&N. I've heard ppl put about 100,000 miles on their engine using a K&N and its still running hard. I'm sure Amsoil foam filters will be more than adequate for street use. They market their products very well and have a very good customer support base.

 

[Dominic]

Cotton Gauze Filters are great... love my Powershot

 

[Pablo]

Shouldn't this be in the "general" or the humor forum?

When anyone says something good about a product shouldn't they be expected to have real data? I think this applies to negative "information" as well.

BTW I think a paper filter would have clogged sooner..........in my experience a foam air filter is not just some two dimensional plane that just becomes impenentrable when a little dust sticks to the oil.

 

[metroplex]

Pablo: From experience, foam filters can clog very quickly. Adding oil to foam filters DOES track more dirt, which makes it clog even faster in dirtier environments.
However I never used an Amsoil brand foam air filter - I can't see how they'd make it not clog w/o sacrificing air filtration. Anyone have a macro shot of an Amsoil air filter element?

[ December 09, 2002, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: metroplex ]

 

[mdv]

quote:

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Originally posted by metroplex:
The "authority" on air filters speaks:

I was watching Alias last night, the episode was "Passage"

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They could have used some of the water in their canteen to rinse an Amsoil filter. Then they wouldn't have had to walk the last 10 miles

One key thing I think you left out about the K&N's is that they do let more dirt into the engine. Someone racing through the desert may not care, but someone with a street vehicle might. For the record, there is a cone filter on my car.

 

[mormit]

Guess I need to pitch my oil analysis reports and base my auto maintenance on Sunday Night 'must see TV'.

I've had an Amsoil on both my cars for seven months with no signs of clogging. Si in oil analysis is nearly nonexistant.

 

[metroplex]

quote:

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. Its nice to know that the prefilter is cleaning the air and all that crud is not going into your lungs?

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Nah. The paper filter is doing the actual filtration. The FOam pre-filter is the sacrificial lamb - it catches the larger objects so you wont have to change the panel filter more often. PLUS on my HEPA filter the carbon prefilter eliminates odors. Its filtration power is almost non-existent. Fine dust still goes thru (allergens, pollens, mold, etc).

With the K&N, the dirt DOES get stuck into the filter, but the element is so unrestrictive that it flows air fairly well regardless of where the clog takes place. W/ a paper filter, its already restricted to something like 400-500 cfm when its new. Once hte major portion of it is clogged, that drops significantly. The K&N is advertised to have 800+ cfm, which means that when most of it is blocked up w/ dirt or sand, it still has adequate airflow potential.

But yea, that particular part of Alias was funny as heck - I had to rewind it on my TiVo and play it back w/ Closed Captioning to verify what Lena Olin said!

 

[TooSlick]

Metroplex,

Most hard core, off road two stroke dirt bikes run oiled foam filters - UNI is a popular brand. I have been running an Amsoil, oiled foam air filter on my Rally riding mower for the past 10 years - it gets all caked up with grass/twigs/dirt and still seems to filter pretty well. I simply brush the dirt off the outside of the filter at the end of the day and clean it in "Simple Green" about every 10 hours and then re-oil it ....the OEM filter was a foam piece inside a metal housing and clogged even faster.

I can't vouch for the quality of oiled foam filters made in India, however

TooSlick

 

[Mike_dup1]

My Honda 2001 Rancher 4X4 ATV use a form filter.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I'm with Tooslick...go to any motocross race in the world over the last 20 years and you will find that 99.999% of the bikes use oiled foam filters. Of course these bikes see some of the dustiest and crappiest conditions imaginable and high performance is always of paramount importance. You will not find a K&N or paper filter in these bikes either.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

While on the topic, just what size of dirt particle is actually harmful. The reason I ask is because I remember reading the box of an ITG filter (foam), it listed the filtering size in microns, perhaps something like 5 microns (I don't really remember the exact number but that doesnt matter),it then went on to say that anything smaller than 5 microns (or whatever) has been proven not to cause harm to autmototive engines and will not increase wear. So is it true that smaller sized particles are less harmful or not harmful at all in terms of engine wear ?. Anyone care to add to that.

One thing I do notice is when running a K&N filter, a lot of dirt bounces off the filter and metal mesh material. There is more dirt inside my air box running a K&N than when I run a foam Comptech (UNI) filter. The dirt impregnates more on the foam filter from what I can tell. You can really feel the dirt in the foam filter when you go to clean it too. Just a slight observation when I run both filters. I have found that the foam filter leaves a dust residue inside the intake tract tubing which I don't get when I run the K&N filter.

 

[MolaKule]

I can't see where a foam filter would clog any faster than any other filter.

Total surface area of a foam filter is much greater than any other type, except maybe a gauze type (same principle).

 

[Pablo]

Metro - OK I've calmed down

You write:

quote:

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The whole point of a K&N is that it won't clog......so if the center part or any major part is totally 100% clogged, the sides can still flow an adequate amount of air.

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I find this statement contrary

I mean I think I know what you are writing, but why wouldn't this apply to any filter?

I would have laughed like a madman if I would have seen that show...now I'll just sue

 

[Mike_dup1]

If the filter clogs its because it stopped the all the dirt from getting in the engine. If a K&N was running in the same conditions, where did the dirt go? Into the engine is a good bet. Racers don't reuse any engine so what do they care if its worn out after the race?

I have the hepa filters at home too, 4 of them. Its nice to know that the prefilter is cleaning the air and all that crud is not going into your lungs?

I have used the Amsoil air filters since it came on the market and have yet to see one clog. I clean mine once a year.

 

[msparks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
I have found that the foam filter leaves a dust residue inside the intake tract tubing which I don't get when I run the K&N filter.

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I personally have found the opposite to be true, as well as higher SI readings in my Analysis.

To each his own, I'm no engineer, but I know for a fact that the Amsoil filters work in regards to SI and Oil Analysis.

BTW, Maybe you should also check out: http://www.pipercross.com/

 

[Dipstick]

quote:

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Originally posted by mormit:
Guess I need to pitch my oil analysis reports and base my auto maintenance on Sunday Night 'must see TV'.

I've had an Amsoil on both my cars for seven months with no signs of clogging. Si in oil analysis is nearly nonexistant.

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Thank You, I was waiting for someone to say that. In addition, I would recommend you query the Land Rover forum, they have stated that after 8 hours of convoy safari's in Africa their engines are completely ruined from all the dust after using K&N's. You know what they did to prevent this from happening again? They went to a paper design with a pre foam element and it works.

 

[Tommy]

quote:

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after 8 hours of convoy safari's in Africa their engines are completely ruined from all the dust after using K&N's

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Yes, but at least they did not have to stop to clean a clogged air filter!

 

[RobZ71LM7]

Umm your psots says that the amsoils do their job and k&n's needlessly let in dirt. Why would I want to use a K&N?

 

[cousincletus]

I use the Amsoil filter in my wife's Jeep because it is cheaper in the long run to use it. And it seems like foam filters out dirt better, too. I have used Lawn boy mowers all my life and the engines last over 20 hard years using oiled foam filters. I would say that if you don't need a high performance filter, use Amsoil foam

or paper.

 

[metroplex]

If you stop in an African safari, wouldn't you get eaten by tigers and lions?