Why 20wt Stubborness??
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Originally Posted By: BrianWC
I dunno. Maybe that's why I could never find it-it was out of stock? But anyhow, I had to run M1 5W30 for about the first year in my CR-V. I'm sure my engine suffered greatly.
This was ancient history (2003 at the latest). MC was probably banging HARD for the product and the dealers were probably being pressured to buy the appropriate amount of oil to justify the through put of service incidences. They finally protested and WM pulled MC 5w-20 off the shelves (maybe the whole line?) and I think it was found that it was more beneficial to allow dealers to subvert the normal purchase channels or discount it to them ..then to eliminate WM as a retailer of the product. By then, others had come to market with their approved 5w-20's ..so
I dunno. Maybe that's why I could never find it-it was out of stock? But anyhow, I had to run M1 5W30 for about the first year in my CR-V. I'm sure my engine suffered greatly.
This was ancient history (2003 at the latest). MC was probably banging HARD for the product and the dealers were probably being pressured to buy the appropriate amount of oil to justify the through put of service incidences. They finally protested and WM pulled MC 5w-20 off the shelves (maybe the whole line?) and I think it was found that it was more beneficial to allow dealers to subvert the normal purchase channels or discount it to them ..then to eliminate WM as a retailer of the product. By then, others had come to market with their approved 5w-20's ..so
Last year I got good deal from a local WM, they had on clearance shelf $2/qt for M1 0W20 and 0W40. I grabbed all clearance bottles of more than 10 quarts. That particular WM still do not having any M1 0Wxx on the shelf as of now.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I don't think that any US OEM has recommended a straight weight oil in over 30 years (passenger cars, anyway) ..for the same CAFE reasons (and the obvious benefits of cold start performance) ..and multivisc 20 grade fluids were not available in the market.
Multigrade 20 oils have been available for decades (including original M1), but I know of no manufacturers that recommended their use year round and/or for sustained high speed driving. For those reasons, they were seldom seen in many areas of North America.
I did some further checking and found that 20W20 was a recommended grade by at least one manufacturer in recent decades. My shop manual for 1984 S-series Chevrolet trucks lists 20W20 as a recommended weight for any temperature above 20F. SAE 30 was recommended for any temperature above 40F. Interestingly, it only recommended 5W30 for temperatures below 60F. The closest thing to a year round use oil was 10W30, which was recommend for any temperature above 0F.
Similar to the "stubbornness" related to 5W20, it took years for customers to accept 5W30 for year round use (especially in areas where summer temperatures were well above 60F).
I don't think that any US OEM has recommended a straight weight oil in over 30 years (passenger cars, anyway) ..for the same CAFE reasons (and the obvious benefits of cold start performance) ..and multivisc 20 grade fluids were not available in the market.
Multigrade 20 oils have been available for decades (including original M1), but I know of no manufacturers that recommended their use year round and/or for sustained high speed driving. For those reasons, they were seldom seen in many areas of North America.
I did some further checking and found that 20W20 was a recommended grade by at least one manufacturer in recent decades. My shop manual for 1984 S-series Chevrolet trucks lists 20W20 as a recommended weight for any temperature above 20F. SAE 30 was recommended for any temperature above 40F. Interestingly, it only recommended 5W30 for temperatures below 60F. The closest thing to a year round use oil was 10W30, which was recommend for any temperature above 0F.
Similar to the "stubbornness" related to 5W20, it took years for customers to accept 5W30 for year round use (especially in areas where summer temperatures were well above 60F).
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Okay ..let's nitpick ..no OEM produced passenger car for the lower 48 rolled off the assembly line with a straight weight. The owners manual would specify other weights for severe conditions. This evolved, due to the various problems encountered, to a (mostly) one size fits all recommendation that we've had (for the vast majority) over the past 20 years.
M1 was a 5w-20 ..I used it.
In 1974 there were two commonly available multiviscs. 10w30 and 10w-40. They were marketed as "better" and "best". No gas station or service center carried 5w anything. No parts store either (perhaps outside of Canada or perhaps in limited amount MN, ND, SD, etc.). SEA 20w-20 and SAE 30 were also available. I believe 1975 produced the transition to 5w30 ..and at that time, I do not believe that the CAFE regulations required that the certified oils be widely available for adoption.
There was no incentive to produce it.
M1 was a 5w-20 ..I used it.
In 1974 there were two commonly available multiviscs. 10w30 and 10w-40. They were marketed as "better" and "best". No gas station or service center carried 5w anything. No parts store either (perhaps outside of Canada or perhaps in limited amount MN, ND, SD, etc.). SEA 20w-20 and SAE 30 were also available. I believe 1975 produced the transition to 5w30 ..and at that time, I do not believe that the CAFE regulations required that the certified oils be widely available for adoption.
There was no incentive to produce it.
some say running a thicker oil in the newer 4,6 fords cause valve guide wear because the thicker oil cant penatrate and lubricate the valve stems as fast as the 5w20 does also in some extreme cases using a 10w40 in extreme cold can blow out your oil filter as the ny state police and the fire dept has learned the hard way those guys get into a cold car start it and its full throttle..they once used heavy oils too, in the cold weather use 5w30 in your older vic you can use pennzoil high mileage but use the 5w30 you will see that oil works well and will condition seals. today thin is in and not only for c.a.f.e. reasons. Not too many years ago 10w40 and 20w50 was the way to go but now the oils are totally different and much much better
Quote:
Q. Here in the desert southwest, air temperature reach 120 in the shade, what oil weight do you suggest?
A: Customers should use the viscosity grade that was recommended for his vehicle in TSB 02-1-9. In some cases that means 5w30 for 2001 vehicles, but for most, that means 5W-20. Many people believe 5W-20 will be too thin to protect vehicles in high ambience such as experienced in Arizona at 120 degrees. Keep in mind that both 5w30 and 5W-20 were both fully tested, including Arizona proving grounds and experienced these very high ambient temperatures. The 5W-20 past all requirements and in some instances proved to be a better oil than the 5w30. So customer should not be hesitant in using 5W-20 for those vehicles where it is recommended.
Q. Here in the desert southwest, air temperature reach 120 in the shade, what oil weight do you suggest?
A: Customers should use the viscosity grade that was recommended for his vehicle in TSB 02-1-9. In some cases that means 5w30 for 2001 vehicles, but for most, that means 5W-20. Many people believe 5W-20 will be too thin to protect vehicles in high ambience such as experienced in Arizona at 120 degrees. Keep in mind that both 5w30 and 5W-20 were both fully tested, including Arizona proving grounds and experienced these very high ambient temperatures. The 5W-20 past all requirements and in some instances proved to be a better oil than the 5w30. So customer should not be hesitant in using 5W-20 for those vehicles where it is recommended.
Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5W-20 is a better oil in some cases than Motorcraft Super Premium 5w30 (which is no longer in production).
Will Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5W-20 be better in those same cases than Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w30? What about RedLine 5w30?
Here's TSB 02-1-9 that is being referenced: http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/dealer/tsb/0219.pdf
I'm not sure I'd feel confident running 5W-20 in my 1993 460 Big Block Ford.
Will Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5W-20 be better in those same cases than Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w30? What about RedLine 5w30?
Here's TSB 02-1-9 that is being referenced: http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/dealer/tsb/0219.pdf
I'm not sure I'd feel confident running 5W-20 in my 1993 460 Big Block Ford.
Almost every big block in the 50's and 60's ran on 20w?
My answer to the OP's question, Why 20wt Stubborness??
Old habits die hard, and human nature tell us to resist change, and things we don't totally understand or want to understand. Especially if you've been doing or using something for a very long time.
In my painting business (almost 30 years, with a brief exit to explore a different career). Oil base paint on trim was always the very best paint to use, and oil primer with a prep coat under wallpaper was always the best. Always oil prime new drywall, then paint with 2 coats of latex finish paint, oil prime calcimine ceilings, then finish with oil base flat paint. Now all those methods are obsolete.
As Acrylic primers and paints evolved they became better, and now are used almost exclusively. They retain their color better, are less likely to chip or peel, and are environmentally friendly compared to the oil products they've replaced. It took a long time to digest that being an old timer, but it happened and the products work. Oil primers and paints were used almost 50-60% of the time, they're now used 5-10%. Their replacements save time, money, and do as good or a better job.
Technology is always pushing forward.
JMO
Old habits die hard, and human nature tell us to resist change, and things we don't totally understand or want to understand. Especially if you've been doing or using something for a very long time.
In my painting business (almost 30 years, with a brief exit to explore a different career). Oil base paint on trim was always the very best paint to use, and oil primer with a prep coat under wallpaper was always the best. Always oil prime new drywall, then paint with 2 coats of latex finish paint, oil prime calcimine ceilings, then finish with oil base flat paint. Now all those methods are obsolete.
As Acrylic primers and paints evolved they became better, and now are used almost exclusively. They retain their color better, are less likely to chip or peel, and are environmentally friendly compared to the oil products they've replaced. It took a long time to digest that being an old timer, but it happened and the products work. Oil primers and paints were used almost 50-60% of the time, they're now used 5-10%. Their replacements save time, money, and do as good or a better job.
Technology is always pushing forward.
JMO
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