Who runs a 20wt here?

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by IndyFan
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by IndyFan
My 08 JK 3.8 has the towing group, and no oil cooler, either. It is spec'ed to run 5w20.


Not surprising. They are generally only part of the package when required. What's the towing capacity?

It may also, as broken out above, been a separate line item that wasn't selected. These cooler packages often increase GVWR as well.


I don't remember it being an option in 08. The towing capacity of the 4 door JK was only 3500lbs. I do think there may have been some issues, at some level, because not only does the oil cooler appear to be standard on the JL, but the addition of the high volume fan speaks to something, as well. Not sure. I just know that the engineer said they wanted better cooling than the JK, and they wanted it to be able to handle the most extreme ambient temps while rock crawling at slow speed with the engine working very hard. That said, I've never had an issue with my JK's cooling. However, I've maintained my cooling system by the book, and have always run a high quality synthetic oil, mostly versions of Mobil 1, with a few runs of Pennzoil Platinum. I've run it a few times in some tough conditions, crawling slowly off-road in high heat, but probably not comparable to say, Moab in August. I did run Moab, but it was in early Spring and temps topped out in the low to mid 80's.

The JL's towing capacity is the same, btw. When that fan is on max, you can really feel the heat coming out from under it in much greater volume than the JK on high. Keep in mind, I'm comparing the 3.8 JK, not the 3.6, so the 3.6 may be set up a bit differently and may have had more issues with cooling in extreme conditions than the 3.8. I honestly don't know, though. I just know the JL has a stronger cooling set up, for sure. It was easy to notice even before hearing from the Jeep engineer.


I'm guessing it is engine specific, likely due to specific output. The 3.8L is only 202HP, so 53HP/L, on the other hand, the 3.6L Pentastar in the '18 is 285HP; 79HP/L, significantly higher. Ergo, it will make more heat. They are also entirely different engine architectures.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by nap
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
When someone is wallpapering the entire forum with charts and videos I believe it reveals a need for attention, not a need to disseminate facts...


It's all relative, your perception that Shannow is overdoing it may be related to the fact that the thin camp has nothing to show in support of their side of the argument....

And what are you adding besides fueling the flames?


This thread has gone to the dogs. A lot of posters here must not work?



What we are doing is commenting. This is an open forum and is not subject to your rules for posting.


And for the record, my comment was not directed at Shannow.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
When someone is wallpapering the entire forum with charts and videos I believe it reveals a need for attention, not a need to disseminate facts...


So nobody can post technical info in these type of discussions, or show any info that backs up their viewpoints? Seems like an excuse for not really understanding the technical info.

 

[CharlieBauer]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
When someone is wallpapering the entire forum with charts and videos I believe it reveals a need for attention, not a need to disseminate facts...


So nobody can post technical info in these type of discussions, or show any info that backs up their viewpoints? Seems like an excuse for not really understanding the technical info.


Apparently he makes an exception if Shannow does it.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by nap
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
When someone is wallpapering the entire forum with charts and videos I believe it reveals a need for attention, not a need to disseminate facts...


It's all relative, your perception that Shannow is overdoing it may be related to the fact that the thin camp has nothing to show in support of their side of the argument....

And what are you adding besides fueling the flames?


This thread has gone to the dogs. A lot of posters here must not work?



What we are doing is commenting. This is an open forum and is not subject to your rules for posting.


And for the record, my comment was not directed at Shannow.




And for the record my comment was not directed at you either but to a comment which was edited.


I'm out.

 

[OilUzer]

I like charts and data! However, I am a data hoarder

 

[wemay]

All commentary is fine in my book, as are different perspectives like scientific and real-world backgrounds respectively. Insults and name calling are where the lines should be drawn. I don't recall any of that here but i haven't read every entry either.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
When someone is wallpapering the entire forum with charts and videos I believe it reveals a need for attention, not a need to disseminate facts...


So nobody can post technical info in these type of discussions, or show any info that backs up their viewpoints? Seems like an excuse for not really understanding the technical info.


I don't think it was directed at you either

 

[KrisZ]

Here is an oil cooler for pentastar equipped vehicle's, that would also include Journey. So much for Toyota engineering prowess lol.
Also, thicker oil doesn't warm up longer. Some people were really asleep during highschool physics class.

 

[StevieC]

Not all Journey's just the PentaStar equipped Journeys. They also came with the 2.4L 4 Cylinder like the one I had and the cooler was a part that could be ordered but not part of the towing package.

 

[KrisZ]

Your contention was that FCA didn't engineer the Journey properly because they did not include the oil cooler. Overkill and I showed you that certain option and engines combos do have it. So perhaps FCA engineers know a bit more than you. Comparing two totally different vehicle's with different drivetrains, but the same 20w oil spec to somehow make your argument sound valid, is grasping at straws.

Also please explain how you arrived at your conclusion that a thicker oil warms up slower.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Your contention was that FCA didn't engineer the Journey properly because they did not include the oil cooler. Overkill and I showed you that certain option and engines combos do have it. So perhaps FCA engineers know a bit more than you. Comparing two totally different vehicle's with different drivetrains, but the same 20w oil spec to somehow make your argument sound valid, is grasping at straws.

Also please explain how you arrived at your conclusion that a thicker oil warms up slower.


That's not what I said. What I said is that my Journey NOT equipped with an oil cooler was running 90c oil temperatures in cool weather and that USING a cooler would further push this out of the range and it would be even further out of the range with a 30wt but that in the summer the oil would run up to 117C which is out of the range the other way so that including a cooler and heat exchanger would have solved this problem which is PROPER engineering and would better keep a 20wt at the optimal 100c.

He then started talking about towing packages which I told him I had because I did and it didn't include the oil cooler. Maybe the PentaStar V6 one would have been included but on my 4 Cylinder it was not by default and then he talked about multiple towing packages.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Not all Journey's just the PentaStar equipped Journeys. They also came with the 2.4L 4 Cylinder like the one I had and the cooler was a part that could be ordered but not part of the towing package.



I already indicated that these were two separate order codes. It could have been ordered with both, it was apparently only ordered with the hitch and wiring, not the cooler package.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by StevieC
That's not what I said. What I said is that my Journey NOT equipped with an oil cooler was running 90c oil temperatures in cool weather and that USING a cooler would further push this out of the range and it would be even further out of the range with a 30wt but that in the summer the oil would run up to 117C which is out of the range the other way so that including a cooler and heat exchanger would have solved this problem which is PROPER engineering and would better keep a 20wt at the optimal 100c.

He then started talking about towing packages which I told him I had because I did and it didn't include the oil cooler. Maybe the PentaStar V6 one would have been included but on my 4 Cylinder it was not by default and then he talked about multiple towing packages.


I don't think the factory "cooler" is anything other than a heat exchanger. In the context of coolers being discussed, they are all oil/coolant heat exchangers, including the one on my SRT, so they all tend to bring oil temperature closer to coolant temperature.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by StevieC
Not all Journey's just the PentaStar equipped Journeys. They also came with the 2.4L 4 Cylinder like the one I had and the cooler was a part that could be ordered but not part of the towing package.



I already indicated that these were two separate order codes. It could have been ordered with both, it was apparently only ordered with the hitch and wiring, not the cooler package.


Where did I argue that? I was only making a comment about the picture comment because it said Journey's and that isn't for both engine models the Journeys came with is all.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by StevieC
That's not what I said. What I said is that my Journey NOT equipped with an oil cooler was running 90c oil temperatures in cool weather and that USING a cooler would further push this out of the range and it would be even further out of the range with a 30wt but that in the summer the oil would run up to 117C which is out of the range the other way so that including a cooler and heat exchanger would have solved this problem which is PROPER engineering and would better keep a 20wt at the optimal 100c.

He then started talking about towing packages which I told him I had because I did and it didn't include the oil cooler. Maybe the PentaStar V6 one would have been included but on my 4 Cylinder it was not by default and then he talked about multiple towing packages.


I don't think the factory "cooler" is anything other than a heat exchanger. In the context of coolers being discussed, they are all oil/coolant heat exchangers, including the one on my SRT, so they all tend to bring oil temperature closer to coolant temperature.


This wasn't aimed at you. No beef with what you said. I was clearing up what I said for KrisZ

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by StevieC
Not all Journey's just the PentaStar equipped Journeys. They also came with the 2.4L 4 Cylinder like the one I had and the cooler was a part that could be ordered but not part of the towing package.



I already indicated that these were two separate order codes. It could have been ordered with both, it was apparently only ordered with the hitch and wiring, not the cooler package.


Where did I argue that? I was only making a comment about the picture comment because it said Journey's and that isn't for both engine models the Journeys came with is all.


My point is that it would have been an available package, perhaps included as part of the increased GVWR package, but apparently a separate line item if you order the tow package. This is likely due to the relatively low towing capacity, so oil temps aren't a huge concern.

Trying to contrast the factory options on the Journey to the Highlander is a bit of apples to oranges is what I'm digging at here, you are probably better to compare to the GC IMHO.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by StevieC
That's not what I said. What I said is that my Journey NOT equipped with an oil cooler was running 90c oil temperatures in cool weather and that USING a cooler would further push this out of the range and it would be even further out of the range with a 30wt but that in the summer the oil would run up to 117C which is out of the range the other way so that including a cooler and heat exchanger would have solved this problem which is PROPER engineering and would better keep a 20wt at the optimal 100c.

He then started talking about towing packages which I told him I had because I did and it didn't include the oil cooler. Maybe the PentaStar V6 one would have been included but on my 4 Cylinder it was not by default and then he talked about multiple towing packages.


I don't think the factory "cooler" is anything other than a heat exchanger. In the context of coolers being discussed, they are all oil/coolant heat exchangers, including the one on my SRT, so they all tend to bring oil temperature closer to coolant temperature.


This wasn't aimed at you. No beef with what you said. I was clearing up what I said for KrisZ


I understand that. I think it's just a good idea to discuss that in the context of available options. Generally, what's available OE is a heat exchanger that ties oil temp to coolant temp, so the scenario depicted wouldn't have really been possible.

What's interesting is the rather significant size difference between these coolers. The one on the SRT is pretty bloody big; significantly larger than the one we had on the Charger R/T 5.7L.

 

[StevieC]

That picture above isn't the part for the 2.4L 4 cylinder only for the PentaStars just so we are clear. I understand what you are saying about it being an option. What I'm saying is that with the towing package they added to mine with the trailer hitch and such it didn't include the oil cooler for the 2.4L 4 Cylinder. Again different from the picture above which is for the PentaStar V6.

As for size of the cooler in your second comment, they must have their reasons.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Your contention was that FCA didn't engineer the Journey properly because they did not include the oil cooler. Overkill and I showed you that certain option and engines combos do have it. So perhaps FCA engineers know a bit more than you. Comparing two totally different vehicle's with different drivetrains, but the same 20w oil spec to somehow make your argument sound valid, is grasping at straws.

Also please explain how you arrived at your conclusion that a thicker oil warms up slower.


That's not what I said. What I said is that my Journey NOT equipped with an oil cooler was running 90c oil temperatures in cool weather and that USING a cooler would further push this out of the range and it would be even further out of the range with a 30wt but that in the summer the oil would run up to 117C which is out of the range the other way so that including a cooler and heat exchanger would have solved this problem which is PROPER engineering and would better keep a 20wt at the optimal 100c.

He then started talking about towing packages which I told him I had because I did and it didn't include the oil cooler. Maybe the PentaStar V6 one would have been included but on my 4 Cylinder it was not by default and then he talked about multiple towing packages.


So now you're saying your Journey is properly engineered after all because the oil cooler would make the oil even colder during winter? By the way, your super engineered Toyota doesn't have an oil cooler and an exchanger, it only has a heat exchanger, but most people refer to them as coolers.