Who has the most miles on an Auto-Rx'd engine?

Bruce T · Jun 29, 2004

I believe Auto-Rx cleans as advertised by Frank - better than its competition. I haven't seen one credible report (please note I said "credible") of it doing any engine damage. I'm now starting the final rinse phase on my own car.

However, since ARX is a relatively new product, I must raise the obvious question about the risk of long-term effects on the engine: Who has reported the most miles on an engine AFTER it has been treated with ARX?

This is the true acid test for the performance of ARX, since my chemist friend tells me that certain metal conditions can take years to surface. I doubt any lab has gone to the extreme of cutting engine cross sections.

[ June 29, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]

dropitby · Jun 30, 2004

I don't have a answer to your question but he did get a great endorsement from the the American Motorcycle Assoc. Their are many products and to have the guys here say it works is good enough for me.

Bruce T · Jun 30, 2004

Their recommendation was good enough for me to use ARX, too, but I think it's a good question.

Frank · Jun 30, 2004

First things first, Auto-rx is not an oil based chemistry or a solvent chemistry. The MSDS is not necessary (we put it up so we would look like every other company) however it plainly shows no DOT Restrictions in transporting Auto-Rx over highways. Auto-Rx is natural chemistry and can do no harm, even if you use to much or not enough.

Auto-Rx has been used in car engines for over 5 years, the industrial version has been in web offset printing presses (gear boxes ) for 6 years.

Auto-Rx is undetectable in an oil analysis and does not change oil specifications or oil chemistry.

Terry · Jun 30, 2004

Bruce T,

I have been performing proprietary testing of Auto-RX for nearly 3 years now and have had the pleasure of interpreting reams of independent lab testing of the chemistry. That includes major oil additive companies in house labs, that consider Auto-RX a "disruptive technology "( in the sense that it cuts into our business disruptive!).

The only negative I see associated with the use of Auto-RX is that your oil and engine both,will perform better after RX cleaning. Enabling any lubricant to function more effectively after and during use. Limiting the need for repairs and oil changes needlessly.

As Frank the owner of Auto-RX shared;
It is so safe and inert that MSDS is not required by US DOT HAZMAT requirements.

As I posted on a another thread Auto-RX is one of two products that a consumer could use that I have ever recommended publicly. As a independent tribological tester I recommend very little publicly for proprietary reasons.

If this product damaged anything our testing or the other labs would have showed it and you would never have read any support from this tester supporting the product.

Sincerely, Terry Dyson

Owner and Chief Analyst , Dyson Analysis

[ June 30, 2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Terry ]

Audi Junkie · Jun 30, 2004

..sounds fishy.

I'll "stick" with STP Oil Treatment.

Bio-T · Jun 30, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Audi Junkie:
..sounds fishy.

I'll "stick" with STP Oil Treatment.

Before or after your Auto-Rx treatment?

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001993;p=1#000000

Ross · Jun 30, 2004

If auto-rx is the first, what is the second?

VaderSS · Jun 30, 2004

LubeControl/FuelPower

2003TRD · Jul 1, 2004

sounds magical.

crashz · Jul 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by 2003TRD:
sounds magical.

It is. It works so well that you wouldn't beleive me if I told you. Thats Ok with me though, I'm hording it for myself.

[ July 01, 2004, 03:33 PM: Message edited by: crashz ]

Bruce T · Jul 1, 2004

Frank/Terry, I realize you're in a difficult position. You try to provide enough information about Auto-Rx to satisfy the general public, yet you can't reveal trade secrets or confidential data. I know you're both men of character.

Frank, I've previously admitted to knowing very little chemistry, but I did want to ask, "Do any ARX molecules bond with any of the metal surfaces in the engine (instead of bonding with sludge)?" This is the key issue.

Terry, I think I'm following you. You're saying that heavy lab testing has already been performed on ARX. If any negative results had been found by your lab or other labs, then the competition would certainly have used these results to attack the credibility of ARX? Of course, then you couldn't have supported the product, either.

Thanks,
Bruce

[ July 01, 2004, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Bruce T ]

2003TRD · Jul 1, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by crashz:

quote:

Originally posted by 2003TRD:
sounds magical.

Click to expand...

It is. It works so well that you wouldn't beleive me if I told you. Thats Ok with me though, I'm hording it for myself.

I am always a skeptic but also open to try new things. I am probably gonna run it in my wifes focus when it hits 50K but I am running amsoil so I doubt it will need much cleaning. I am a big believer in preventive maintanance.

MolaKule · Jul 1, 2004

quote:

"Do any ARX molecules bond with any of the metal surfaces in the engine (instead of bonding with sludge)?" This is the key issue.

You may want to expand or clarify your question.

In chemistry, bonding means, "the joining together of atoms to form [new] molecules or crystalline salts."

What detrimental or advantageous effects do you expect from your definition of bonding?

Esters are attracted to metals due to their mutual polar (electrostatic) attraction. This may displace sludge molecules in the process, aka, "cleaning effects." In addition, larger molecular weight ester molecules surround sludge and form little dispersant communities called "micelles," which hold sludge in suspension until they are removed by filtration and oil drains.

PS: I am not sure mileage or longevity proves anything here other than the fact that an engine which has clean ring packs and flexing rings seals better, has less blowby, better emissions, and probably has less ring/cylinder wear than engine not so clean.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001968

[ July 02, 2004, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

sprintman · Jul 1, 2004

You will be surprised hoe much crap you will have in that 50K engine. My Outback had 62Kkms when I got it which is less than your engine and has now had 3 cleans. It now runs like it should with of course RX maintenance dose added.

Alan · Jul 1, 2004

How long does it take for a typical engine run with a quality synthetic like M1 to get "dirty".

I ask becasue I have run M1 5W30 in my Corolla(1zz-Fe)for close to 50K of the 53K it has on the motor.From what I have seen from the oil cap port it looks prety clean with no varnish buildup even.Does M1 do anything towards keeping the ringpacks clean in your opinion?

MAJA · Jul 2, 2004

Bruce T's question hasnt been answered in 16 replys. I will try to be the first to answer his original question. I have 1200, 1100, and 600 miles on the "clean" phase of the ARX system, on three vehicles. I am adding ARX to a fourth vehicle this evening. I know that is not what Bruce wants to hear. Maybe someone else has 25K or 50K or even 100K on an engine after doing the ARX system. Maybe one of them will report in. I would like to know also.

Terry · Jul 2, 2004

Bruce, I would publicly state or at least withdrawel using my name and business name with Auto-Rx if I thought it was a problem in any way. Ask Frank Miller and Odis Beaver what a pain in the arse I am that way. My reputation worldwide makes or breaks me for the next analysis contract.

On the "bonding" question there is a EP capability intregal to RX ( all bio based) that keep wear nil while RX cleans, thats about all I can say. The Chemist for RX has publicly stated that more succinctly than I.

A BITOG search may find it here.

Auto-RX is unlike anything that harms or "conditions" metal if that is what you are asking. As in chlorinated paraffins.

I have my own personal cars and many customers who have used Auto-RX in the last few years with thousands of miles of service post RX cleaning, no problems, not one.

Only problem I see if a customer is sealing with carbon and dirt and coked oil and RX cleans it out the oil heads to the path of least resistance but that is not a RX problem, it is a mechanical one that was destroying the bearing,seal,and any rotating or moving valve stem.

TD

MolaKule · Jul 2, 2004

quote:

MolaKule, I'm sorry my question wasn't clear. It seems like the harder I try, the worse it gets! I was asking if any part of ARX could react in a detrimental way with any engine surface? I suspect the answer is, "No," but I would love to hear it from a chemist. No such reactions would mean no long-term risks to the engine.

You're actually two questions here. One is what happens at the surface chemistry between metal and the ARX esters, and what are the long-term effects.

No constituent or compound in Auto-RX reacts in a detrimental way with engine surfaces. AUTO-RX does cleaning, provides a measure of Friction Modification, and provides some mild EP support.

So no long-term risk, but long-term advantages.

Maja,

With all due respect, I DID answer Bruce-T's question in the above post.

MolaKule · Jul 2, 2004

quote:

How long does it take for a typical engine run with a quality synthetic like M1 to get "dirty".

Again, this is a question that can only be answered by, "depends."

Depnds on driving style, engine type, PM schedule, drain schedule, weather, etc.

My experience is that no matter what oil you are using, somewhere between 30 to 50,000 miles, any engine could use a good internal cleaning.