Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Andrewg,
Discussing the reason for a condition is not the same as asking for excuses. I don't see anyone here asking for pity. No one here is asking to honor her recent lifestyle. No one here is asking to put her on a pedestal (unless I missed it somewhere)for her recent lifestyle.
Some here believe that addictions are a choice, others believe it is a sickness. Brain disease (mental illness) can involve "electrical" or physical conditions that fit the definition of disease (
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/disease ), not unlike a condition like diabetes, for example.
The term disease is often associated with physical disorders such as cancer and many do not associate mental issues as a disease. It's semantics in my opinion. I think that the medical and insurance professions have done a disservice to mental health by creating this hoopla of trying to lump it in with physical ailments because of the general public's perception of mental health issues not being a "disease".
Now, I am going to tread on some shaky ground. Understand that I respect everyone's right to their own opinion and it is not my intent to judge or offend anyone.
In your statement quoted below in the over-training exercise thread, are you saying that you made a rational choice (advised and knowing the consequences)to ruin your physical health by age 50? Or, in using the word "obsession" (a mental condition) and "addiction" , are you saying that you were not in control of ruining your health. In the first case, you have to admit to being kind of "dumb" for lack of a better word (no offense intended). In the second case, you would have to accept the stigma
we manly men associate with mental issues.
Per andrewg:
Quote:
In my opinion some folks spend far too much time in the gym or running/cycling and become almost addicted to it. Generally, in time, they over train and suffer injuries (I did). I'm almost 50 and suffer from many injuries and ailments caused from decades of over training/exercising. I have a worn out left shoulder, torn muscles in my upper back, three herniated discs, injured and painful bicep tendon, weak and painful left knee pain, achilles tendon is almost shot, and the arches in my feet ache daily. All of it is from being obsessive about working out and being highly active. I'm paying the price now. I really wish I'd listened to folks that advised moderation and to use diet more instead of increased physical activity to maintain my physique. I can no longer run, cycle, or really enjoy any type of workout other than occasional swimming and low pace walking. It really stinks.
This is NOT about you asking for excuses, or pity, victimization, or honoring here. I imagine you will say you take full responsibility. I simply am trying to define if people make rational choices that lead them to misery, or if it is a mental condition that leads them there.
I work with well educated Phd's that smoke, knowing the possible consequences. Do they choose cancer, or is their addiction a mental condition beyond "willing" themselves to better health.
Finally, to all, lets keep this to a discussion of ideas. The many lame attempts to discredit each other is an indication of the weakness of this discussion.
Interesting how you make the giant leap to compare a type 'A' personality trait and my working out in my younger years as somehow relating to a drug addict with zero character. What did you do....scan all my posts in order to find a crack to wedge yourself in? My choice to workout incorrectly (over train) has no correlation to Houston's choice to take that first drug....and then continue to destroy her life and career for 25 years. She's dead....I have some sore body parts. She was addicted...I am driven. My goals were somewhat noble or at least honorable....hers were immoral and without merit....she had ample information about the horrific toll drug use has on your body, including death, and money to get help....when I was over training, ample information was not as readily available but in time I figured it out and ceased over training. My point is that these unbalanced comparisons of a drug addict to a cancer victim (or the strange analogy of my over training from another thread) is really invalid in my OPINION. I honestly have very, very, little compassion for somebody that chooses to take drugs....and then becomes an addict. Addicts drain society....they offer nothing of value....they destroy themselves and sometimes anything they can get close to....they further the drug culture and contribute to crime....and in MY MIND, deserve nothing until/if they get themselves clean and stay clean. Death does not grant them anything from me as it was the losers way out.
Sorry if that's not the popular way to think these days....but that's how I feel about it.
Sorry. The intent of my post is "I simply am trying to define if people make rational choices that lead them to misery, or if it is a mental condition that leads them there".
Quote:
What did you do....scan all my posts in order to find a crack to wedge yourself in?
No. I follow numerous threads here out of interest. Attacking my character is not effective in supporting your argument.
Quote:
She's dead....I have some sore body parts.
Again, sorry. I obviously read more into "I have a worn out left shoulder, torn muscles in my upper back, three herniated discs, injured and painful bicep tendon, weak and painful left knee pain, achilles tendon is almost shot, and the arches in my feet ache daily"
Quote:
She was addicted...I am driven. I hate giving any excuses for addiction
Again, in your posts you talk about "In my opinion some folks spend far too much time in the gym or running/cycling and become almost
addicted to it. You describe yourself as being "obsessive" and "Type A". Are you saying there are NO similarities here? And, are you not offering "excuses" for your own choices? Cannot Type A's change, if they choose to?
Quote:
she had ample information about the horrific toll drug use has on your body,
Compared to "I really wish I'd listened to folks that advised moderation and to use diet more instead of increased physical activity to maintain my physique".
Quote:
My point is that these unbalanced comparisons of a drug addict to a cancer victim
I agree and Patman already said his comparison was slightly over the top. And, I agree that lumping mental disease and physical disease together is wrong. No need to beat this horse anymore, we agree.
Quote:
Addicts drain society....they offer nothing of value....they destroy themselves and sometimes anything they can get close to.
I can't rely on my next statement too much because it is hard to know if these people were responsible users or maybe somewhat addicted/abusive. But just a handful of past drug "users": Winston Churchill, Thomas Edison, Picasso, Steve Jobs, Tim Allan, The Beatles..... yea, I admit to a bit of a stretch here. But, to say all drug users/abusers offer no value?
Have you considered the cost of your actions on future health care expenses? Did you consider how your choices may affect your friends and loved ones as your ailments get worse? How is this different than you accusing Whitney's choices in light of possible consequences to her child?
I guess my question is how is your basic choice to injure your body much different than a drug/alcohol addicts choice to harm theirs? Because she's a low life scum and you are not?
Maybe I have answered my own curiosity. It seems that sometimes people DO choose bad choices.
I am open to the "choice theory". In fact, if you have time please read excerpts from the Michael Rice's book on Choice Theory.....go to page 59 for the meat of it.
http://books.google.com/books?id=jQ8vKsj...ice&f=false ...choice vs. disease.
Actually, I am now starting to think that maybe addiction is both part choice AND disease.
My opinions are mine. Place me under a microscope if you choose. I don't concern myself too much with supporting my argument as I take no issue in it myself.
You are welcome to your own opinion of course. I also did not mean to attack your character, however I still stand behind my intention of conveying an undue amount of focus you seem to have on me and my opinion.
The individuals you describe as being possibly addictive to whatever substances you are intimating...it is true that not ALL addicts have contributed nothing of value. Let me say however that MOST do not, and if all is taken into account those semi-genius addicts would have contributed FAR more had they not suffered themselves.
But alas my friend....it's just an opinion of a simple GED minded person that holds no degree...that would be ME.
