Which M1 oils are "true" synthetics?

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
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Then what do you mean by "true synthetic?" If there is a "true" kind, there must be a "false" kind, no?
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I have finally concluded that the term "synthetic", as it relates to motor oil, has been beaten into meaninglessness. Even in relatively undisputed territory (can I call that the G-IV and G-V fluids?), there are important differences between what particular fluids are and what they can and can not do. Shoot, that would apply within individual groups.

Right, wrong, or whatever; we (yes, I'm using that term loosely...) have allowed the marketers to drain the word "synthetic" of any real utility. And no, tacking on adjectives, such as "full" or "true" doesn't help at all.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
we (yes, I'm using that term loosely...) have allowed the marketers to drain the word "synthetic" of any real utility.

Have we? Or have we simply caught up to the oil companies in recognizing at long last that the difference between synthetic and non-synthetic is arbitrary and not very meaningful in and of itself?
 
The oil companies have effectivly brainwashed the public by calling almost anything synthetic.......and as you can see, even many here have bought it. All in the name of PROFITS....most who think they are using a "synthetic" oil arnt- they are using a processed dino oil marketed as a synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
The oil companies have effectivly brainwashed the public by calling almost anything synthetic.......and as you can see, even many here have bought it. All in the name of PROFITS....most who think they are using a "synthetic" oil arnt- they are using a processed dino oil marketed as a synthetic.

By that logic, NO oils should be called synthetic, including the ones you always brag about using, since most PAOs and esters also come from "processed dino oil."

Does that mean you're brainwashed, too?
 
What about synthetics? Will synthetic base oils be widely available?
Almost all synthetic-quality lubricants can be blended with Group III base oil, a much more cost effective alternative to expensive PAOs. We see steady growth in these premium lubricant markets, especially in automotive lubricants. This growth will take off, when natural-gas-derived base oils become available, towards the end of this decade. These gas-to-liquid (GTL) base oils will be super Group III oils. They are already they are being called Group III+ by many in the industry.

Currently, there is plenty of good-quality Group III available in North America to meet expected demands for the next several years. Among the highest quality Group IIIs available are Chevron 4R and 7R.

http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/ucbo_prop.aspx


http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/grp3_perform.aspx
 
Funny, coming from someone who promotes that he uses Motul 300v in his signature......obviously you secretly agree with my stance on "synthetic" oils!
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
The oil companies have effectivly brainwashed the public by calling almost anything synthetic.......and as you can see, even many here have bought it. All in the name of PROFITS....most who think they are using a "synthetic" oil arnt- they are using a processed dino oil marketed as a synthetic.



Interesting to read Mobils own definition of "synthetic" on their Australian website....they clearly define group 3 as not a synthetic basestock......here is the link

http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:Y5fvQZpnK4AJ:www.mobil.com/Australia-

And the text from Mobil austrailia


Why Synthetic Oils Are Superior

You may have heard that synthetic oils are superior to conventional oils, that with synthetic oil cars run cleaner and more efficiently for longer? Would you like to learn why synthetic oils are superior and discover some of the benefits you can get from specifying synthetic oils for your car? If so the information below should provide answers to most of your queries.

Engine Oil Basics

Motor oil is more than just old dinosaur bones and prehistoric tree trunks. It’s the lifeblood of an engine. Motor oil keeps engine parts from wearing and reduces friction by providing a protective layer between the metal parts of an engine, and helps carry heat and impurities away from engine components. Motor oil also has to deal with the harsh operating environment inside an engine with its combination of heat, combustion by-products, chemical residues and high pressures. It’s because of this harsh operating environment that motor oil gradually ages and needs to be changed regularly. Synthetic oils typically have a far greater resistance to deterioration and therefore have far greater drain intervals.

What Is Lubricating Oil?

Motor oils are made up of selected base oils combined with performance enhancing additives. Why are additives required?
• Additives improve the original properties of base oils
• Additives impart new performance characteristics to base oils (to suit particular applications)
• Additives help extend the product life

Motor oils typically are 75-85% basestock with the balance being additives. That’s why basestock quality is such a critical contributor to the performance of the final blended product. You’ll find out more about additives below.


There Are Four Different Types of Motor Oil Base Stocks

We know that basestock composition has a significant effect on the overall performance of motor oil. There are four different types of base stock used in the motor oil market today.
Group 1 - Conventional - Mineral oil derived from crude oil
Group 2 - Hydroprocessed - Highly refined mineral oil
Group 3 – Severe hydroprocessed - Ultra refined mineral oil
Group 4 – Full synthetics (chemically derived) - Chemically built Polyalphaolefins (PAO).

As it infers Groups 1 – 3 basestocks are derived from crude oil pumped from the ground whereas Group 4 basestocks are chemically derived, most often from ethylene gas, and contain none of the contaminants present in mineral oils. Just as distilled water is pure water derived from gas so Group 4 basestocks are pure oils derived from gas.


And There Are a Variety of Additives

Additives enhance the performance of motor oil basestocks and help adjust the performance of the oil to suit its intended application. Additives are the key to unlock the performance potential of basestocks but even the best additives won’t turn bad oil into good oil.

Some common additives include:
• Viscosity Index Improvers – improve ability to handle heat and severe conditions
• Pour Point Depressants – lower oil freezing point in cold conditions
• Anti-wear Additives – protect against metal-to-metal contact
• Detergents & Dispersants – keep components clean and prevent sludging
• Oxidation Inhibitors – maintain oil stability over service intervals
• Corrosion & Rust Inhibitors – protect against the effects of condensation
• Defoamants – prevent oil foaming and cavitation

Additives work symbiotically with the base stock and are added in different proportions according to the application. Some examples are that racing oils may not require rust inhibitors but could need extra defoamants for dry sump oil systems, domestic or consumer engine oils may need special additives that don’t interfere with the operation of catalytic converters or diesel oils may require additional protection against combustion byproducts.


Let's Look at Conventional (Mineral) Oil

Conventional motor oils use base stocks created by the conventional refining of crude oil pumped from the ground. Crude oil is a complex mix of hydrocarbon compounds and a variety of sophisticated refining techniques are used to remove/reduce the amount of undesirable components such as asphalts, waxes and chemically unstable sulphur & nitrogen compounds. Conventional motor oils use conventional mineral base stocks so are usually known as Mineral oils.

Mineral base oils have performance limitations. After refining what remains is a lubricating base stock that despite the degree of chemical refinement still contains undesirable materials such as oxygen, sulphur, nitrogen compounds, trace metals and carbon residues.

There are literally thousands of compounds present in crude oil. While many of them are removed or upgraded by refining, a significant concentration of these undesirable materials remains in lubricating oil base stocks. These residual undesirable materials mean additive packs can’t operate to full effect because the additive has to compete for space with the impurities when they attempt to bond with the baseoil molecules. Consequently the molecular structure of the oil is inconsistent, limiting the performance capabilities and useful service life of the resulting blended oil.

Hydroprocessed Oil

Hydroprocessed motor oils use base stocks made by the additional refining of mineral oil. While refined to a greater extent than conventional mineral base oils, hydroprocessed base oils still have similar performance limitations due to the presence of undesirable impurities which cannot be completely removed from crude oil. Hydroprocessed motor oils use extra refined mineral base stocks.

Severe Hydroprocessed Oil

Severe hydroprocessed oils are further refined hydroprocessed oils but they still contain some undesirable impurities which cannot be completely removed. Most engine oils on the Australian market advertised as synthetic use severe hydroprocessed basestocks.

Semi-Synthetics

Semi-Synthetics use base stocks comprising conventional or hydroprocessed base oil in combination with severely hydroprocessed or synthetic (PAO) basestocks. The proportion of severely hydroprocessed or synthetic basestocks in semi-synthetic oil is a closely guarded secret, but is usually between 10% and 25%.

Synthetics

Synthetic motor oils contain a high proportion of base stocks created from pure chemicals. Since synthetic base stocks such as PAO are essentially pure chemicals themselves they avoid the performance limitations imposed by the impurities present in conventional and hydroprocessed base oils. PAO synthetic base oils are therefore pure compounds containing none of the impurities found in conventional base oils derived from crude oil, as mentioned earlier.

In addition, chemically derived synthetic base stock technology allows the base oil molecules to be designed specifically for particular lubrication applications with purpose designed features such as the exact desired viscosity, superior viscosity stay in grade capability, low volatility etc. Synthetic base stocks can also be specifically tailored to suit different additives required for different applications. Additionally because synthetic oils are ‘pure’ they contribute lower emissions and are kinder to catalytic converters. Synthetic oils can also be engineered to have less internal molecular friction allowing an engine to develop maximum power and provide best possible economy.

Synthetics can therefore be "tailored" to suit specific lubrication applications. The molecular engineering that goes into chemically derived synthetic base stocks enable a base oil to be designed for a specific purpose. For example specific base oil molecules have been designed for use in Mobil Jet Oil II (which is used by 70% of the world’s commercial jet aircraft). Similarly and very specific Mobil 1 formulations have been designed for Formula 1 racing applications. This same highly specific molecular engineering approach has been used to design the best base oil molecules for use in consumer synthetic motor oils such as Mobil 1.

Base Oils Summary

Mineral & Hydroprocessed Base Oils
• Refined from Crude Oil
• Mixture of compounds
• Include compounds poorly suited for lubrication

Chemically Derived Synthetic Base Oils
• Synthetic polymers
• Tailor made from controlled building units
• Specifically designed to suit the lubrication application

Unlike base oils derived from crude oil, synthetic base oils can be designed specifically (i.e. "tailor made") to give optimum performance in synergy with the additive compounds with which they are formulated to produce the final motor oil.


So What Does This Mean to You?

Motor oils perform differently under extremes. Under extreme driving conditions synthetic oils offer clearly superior motor oil protection and performance than that provided by mineral oil.

Severe conditions include;
• Stop-and-go driving
• Short trips
• High temperature conditions (especially modern turbo engines)
• Cold start-ups
• Competition

Severe driving conditions aren’t confined to the racetrack or rally stage. Day-to-day driving conditions with stop/start traffic, short trips and cold starts can also be severe conditions that push motor oils to their limits.

There Is a Clear Difference in Motor Oil Protection and Performance

What are the differences?

Differences under extreme conditions:
• Conventional (mineral) Motor Oils break down under extreme hot temperatures and form solids under extreme cold temperatures.
• Hydroprocessed Motor Oils and Semi-Synthetics vary depending on their composition, but generally perform better than conventional (mineral) formulas but not as well as full synthetic oils.
• Fully Synthetic Motor Oils offer the maximum protection against engine wear under extreme hot and cold temperatures and in other severe service conditions, unmatched by conventional or hydroprocessed formulas.

Fully synthetic motor oils offer the best engine protection and allow an engine to develop its maximum potential, leading to increased power and improved economy when compared to equivalent mineral oils.

How Do You Make the Best Oil?

You start with the best fully synthetic base stock chemically engineered for optimum lubrication and keep adding to it. Tailoring the additive packs allows the components of the finished oil to be optimally balanced resulting in the best formulation.

While other manufacturers buy off the shelf additive packages, Mobil 1 is formulated from over a dozen individual premium components. This component approach maximizes performance under all driving conditions, providing the highest level of engine protection available. The make up and proportions of these individual components is continually reviewed and updated to maintain the position of Mobil 1 as the best engine oil you can buy, as it has been since it’s inception in 1973. Mobil’s proven synthetic experience over more than 30 years overcomes potential problems such as seal swelling and poor solvency/detergency, which have been experienced with some other brands of synthetic oils.


Then You Run Rigorous Tests

ExxonMobil engineers put Mobil 1 through the most comprehensive tests in the industry to ensure that its performance far exceeds worldwide standards. Not just once but over many repeated cycles.

Some of these tests include:
• Cold Temperature Pumpability (Pumping Temperature Limits)
• High Temperature Stability (Sequence IIIG Oxidation Test)
• Low Oil Consumption (Noack Volatility Test)
• Fuel Economy Testing
• Extensive Performance Reserve Testing including
• Extended length engine testing
• 25,000 mile oil drain testing
• Low mileage no drain performance testing



Mobil 1 Temperature Properties

Mobil 1 Cold Temperature Properties

Mobil 1 has outstanding low temperature fluidity (it will flow at temperatures below -54°C) and allows the cold starting potential of any car to be maximized. Most engine wear occurs during the critical first seconds after start before the lubricant flows into place to prevent direct metal-on-metal contact. At all cold start temperatures synthetic oils get to the critical wear areas (camshaft & bearings) of the engine quicker than equivalent mineral grades.


Mobil 1 Hot Temperature Properties

So what value is this at high temperatures? At high temperatures the oil molecule in synthetic oils are far more stable and degenerate less. This means not only do synthetic oils maintain lubrication integrity, they continue to cool and clean engine components at constant temperatures of up to 180°C, and can handle short term temperatures in excess of 200°C.

At Bathurst in 2002 when the winning HRT Commodore was running with a blocked radiator inlet the oil temperature rose to above 200°C yet the engine not only survived in perfect condition, it won the race.


Racing - the Ultimate Test

The extremes of competition place enormous demands on an engines oil and leading teams rely on synthetic oils to give them the edge in performance and protection.

• The Formula 1 McLaren Mercedes, Ralliart WRC and Holden HRT teams use synthetic engine oil because a mineral oil simply would not work under the extremes of competition

• Only a fully synthetic oil can provide the anti-wear & high temperature protection required in competition applications

• The use of Mobil’s latest synthetic technology provides horsepower benefits in addition to exemplary engine protection and cleanliness

OEM Applications

Because synthetic baseoils can be tailored to suit specific applications and because of the consistently high quality of synthetic oils many manufacturers of high performance cars specify Mobil 1 to achieve specific requirements for performance potential, drain intervals, fuel economy and emissions compliance. Consequently Mobil 1 is the factory fill for many of the world’s finest high-performance automobiles including:
• Porsche
• HSV
• Mitsubishi EVO
• Mercedes-Benz
• Dodge Viper
• Chevrolet Corvette
• Cadillac
• Callaway
• Lotus
• Aston Martin

Other Applications

The benefits of Mobil’s synthetic expertise extend further than engine oils. The same synthetic technology is applied to gearbox, differential/final drive assemblies and wheel bearing and chassis grease (Mobil SHC series).
 
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Hopefully this will clear up the fallacy that basestocks are not important, and that group 3 is synthetic.....it is not, even the big giant Exxon/Mobil says it is not.


PS DoodFood, I hope you learn something from this post.
 
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Group III UCBO: Performance

Chevron UCBOs deliver synthetic performance and are ideal blending stocks for achieving the low-volatility standards required for many crankcase engine oil applications. Chevron UCBOs are the logical choice for:

Next-generation, premium engine oils
Extended-drain transmission and gear fluids
Severe-duty hydraulic and power transfer fluids
Long-life turbine and industrial oils
Higher VI:
UCBOs have very high viscosity indices ranging from 120 to 140 VI compared to conventional neutral base oils at about 95 VI.

Higher Purity:
All Chevron base oils are produced by all-hydroprocessing which lowers the level of undesirable components such as aromatics, sulfur and nitrogen, resulting in a chemically pure, clear base oil.

Exceptional Oxidation Stability:
The higher purity and VI levels of Chevron UCBOs make them exceptionally resistant to oxidation. In tests, Chevron UCBOs produce oxidation stability approaching that of polyalphaolefin synthetics, making them ideal for lubricants where longer life is required, even under the highest operating temperatures.

More Stable Viscosity:
Chevron UCBOs have very high VIs, providing more stable viscosity at extreme temperatures. So lubricants thicken less at cold temperatures and thin less at high temperatures - providing better wear protection and longer equipment life.

Lower Volatility:
The higher VIs of Chevron UCBOs also help make them much less volatile, or less prone to evaporation.
Engine oils that provide lower oil consumption
Industrial oils and power transmission fluids that have less fluid loss
Lubricants that show less thickening.

Comparing performance with PAO

http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/grp3_perform.aspx
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Interesting to read Mobils own definition of "synthetic" on their Australian website...

If XOM thinks that PAO is so great, then why is there so little of it in their flagship product?
27.gif
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Funny, coming from someone who promotes that he uses Motul 300v in his signature......obviously you secretly agree with my stance on "synthetic" oils!

lol.gif


I ran 300V because that's what the nice people at Motul wanted to send me as part of a sponsorship deal. I was planning on replacing it with 8100 X-Lite 0w-30, which I am pretty sure is at least partially group III. However, since I will no longer be drawing on that sponsorship, I'm going to be replacing the 300V with something that isn't fully synthetic by any definition I'm aware of (RLI BioSyn).

So yeah, you're right, it is funny.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Interesting to read Mobils own definition of "synthetic" on their Australian website...

If XOM thinks that PAO is so great, then why is there so little of it in their flagship product?
27.gif




Why spend the extra money when most consumers are already fooled into thinking grp 3 based products are "synthetic"....
 
Group III Versus PAO Performance

Historically, PAOs have had superior lubricating performance characteristics such as V.I., pour point, volatility, and oxidation stability that could not be achieved with conventional mineral oils. Now, in modern base oil manufacturing, V.I., pour point, volatility, and oxidation stability can be independently controlled. Modern Group III oils today can be designed and manufactured so that their performance closely matches PAOs in most commercially significant finished lube applications.

As well-designed Group III base oils become abundant in the marketplace, the performance gap between Group III and PAO (Group IV) is closing. Here are some key examples:

Pour Point – Pour point is the one property where Group III oils allegedly fall short of PAO. While it is certainly true that the pour point of the neat Group III base oil is substantially higher than that of a PAO of comparable viscosity, it is important to understand that the pour point of the fully formulated lubricant (base oils plus additives) is the critical property. Base oils manufactured with modern isomerization catalysts respond very well to pour point depressant additives. For example, turbine oils formulated with conventional Group II base oils (-12°C base oil pour point) are available with a formulated pour point of -36°C. Fully formulated Group III based lubricants can be made with pour points of -50°C or below.

Products such as motor oils made with the lighter-grade PAOs, on the other hand, typically have higher pour points than the base fluid, so the gap in final product pour point between PAO-based and UCBO-based lubricants is much smaller than in the base fluids themselves. Moreover, it is entirely possible with modern Group III manufacturing technology to produce base oils of even lower pour point. However, this is not common practice in the industry, because it is more economical to meet finished lube low temperature performance using pour point depressant additives rather than using special Group III oils having exceptionally low pour points.

Cold Crank Simulator – Viscosity in engine journal bearings during cold temperature startup is a key factor in determining the lowest temperature at which an engine will start. Cold Cranking Simulator (CCS) viscosity, as measured by ASTM Method D 5293, is determined under conditions similar to those experienced in engine bearings during starting. For base oils, this viscosity is determined almost entirely by
viscosity and V.I. Since Group III stocks typically have V.I. comparable to that of 4 cSt PAO, one would expect comparable CCS performance. This is demonstrated in Figure 3, where it can be seen that a 4 cSt Group III base oil, with a kinematic viscosity of 4.2 cSt at 100°C and a V.I. of 129, and PAO 4, with a viscosity of 3.9 cSt and V.I. of 123, have similar CCS values, both about half that of a 4 cSt Group II base stock of about 100 V.I. This performance makes the Group III stock very effective for formulating fuel efficient multi-viscosity engine oils in the 0W-20 to 0w50 range, one that has historically been achieved only with PAO-based product

Noack Volatility – Noack volatility of an engine oil, as measured by ASTM D 5800 and similar methods, has been found to correlate with oil consumption in passenger car engines. Strict requirements for low volatility are important aspects of several recent and upcoming engine oil specifications, such as ACEA A-3 and B-3 in Europe and ILSAC GF-3 in North America. Figure 4 shows that from a blender’s perspective, Group III base oils are similarly effective as PAOs for achieving these low volatility requirements in engine oil applications. The V.I. of modern Group III oils typically match or exceed PAO, so they can match the volatility of PAOs at a reasonable distillation cut width.

Oxidation Stability – Oxidation and thermal stability are among the most important advantages that “synthetics” bring to the table. Better base oil stability means better additive stability and longer life. High stability is the key to making the premiumquality finished oils of the future with longer drain intervals. Here Group III oils routinely challenge PAO performance. The stability of modern Group III stocks depends mostly on their V.I., because V.I. is an indication of the fraction of highly stable isoparaffinic structures in the base oil [10]. However, because modern Group III stocks also undergo additional severe hydrofinishing after hydrocracking and hydroisomerization, they achieve an additional boost in stability because only trace amounts of aromatics and other impurities remain in the finished stocks. On the other hand, PAO performance seems to depend largely on residual olefin content. Olefins are an intermediate in PAO production that contribute to instability.

Future Evolution
Looking to the future, the trend is toward lubricants and base oils with even higher purity, lower volatility, and longer life. The molecular structure of base oils will probably look even more like PAO as they become more concentrated in the most favorable molecular species needed for superior lubrication performance. It is likely that recent and ongoing developments in base oil technology will enable lubricants with exceptional performance to be marketed in much greater volumes than was feasible when PAO was the only stock capable of such performance levels. There are many possible routes for improving base oil quality. Continued evolution of the all-hydroprocessing route is one likely possibility. Selectivity toward desired molecular compositions could be improved by improving the catalysts and the
processing technology. Improving the feedstock can also improve the product. Very paraffinic (waxy) feedstocks such as Fischer-Tropsch wax from natural gas-to-liquids plants can potentially be further processed into high quality base oils. Volumes and applications are expected to grow, as ultra-waxy feedstocks become more widely available. Other competing technologies are likely to emerge. New routes for
manufacturing PAOs have been proposed that use cheaper feedstocks such as ethylene and propylene rather than 1-decene Future improvements in base oil technology will assuredly lead to further improvements in the performance of turbine oils and other sensitive applications with low additive treat rates.

Conclusions
Lubrication technology evolved slowly from ancient times until the middle of the 20th century. Then solvent refining technology emerged and displaced naturally occurring petroleum distillates due to its improved refined properties. Starting in the 1960s, hydroprocessing technologies were introduced which improved base oil purity and performance further. In the 1970s and 1980s, Group II base oils were manufactured and recognized as a separate API category in 1993, due to their positive differentiation over conventional stocks. Modern hydroisomerization technologies, such as ISODEWAXING, became widely accepted and grew rapidly since it was first commercialized in 1993. Widespread licensing of this technology has created an abundant supply of Group II oils that have exceptional stability and low temperature performance relative to their Group I and Group II predecessors. This technology is now used to make about one-third of all base oils in North America.

A similar trend appears to be emerging with Group III base oils, especially those made using modern hydroisomerization. They offer most of the performance advantages of traditional PAO-based “synthetic” oils and can be manufactured in volumes unachievable by PAO. Most manufacturers of modern Group II base oils can make modern Group III base oils as well.

Selected top-tier lubricants requiring PAO should continue to coexist with Group III oils as they have for years in Europe. But widespread availability of modern Group II and III mineral oils is accelerating the rate of change in the finished oil markets. New improved base oils are helping the engine and equipment manufacturer meet increasing demands for better, cleaner lubricants.

This is particularly true for turbine oils because turbine oils usually contain more than 99% base oil. Turbine oils made from hydroisomerized Group II base oils and the appropriate additives have demonstrated significantly longer TOST lives than turbine oils made with Group I base oils. In fact, they commonly outperform the traditional “synthetics” made with PAO.

As base oil technology continues to evolve and improve, consumers will enjoy even greater protection of automobiles, trucks, and expensive machinery such as turbines. Lubrication performance that currently can be achieved only in small-volume niche applications, using PAO and other specialty stocks, will be more widely available using the new generation of Group II and Group III oils.

http://www.chevron.com/products/sitelets/baseoils/docs/ebot.pdf
 
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Interesting to read Mobils own definition of "synthetic" on their Australian website....they clearly define group 3 as not a synthetic basestock......here is the link.


In Australia.

In Europe other definitions are used.

In Japan, yet another set of definitions are used.

Group III is "synthetic" in the USA.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: qship1996
Interesting to read Mobils own definition of "synthetic" on their Australian website...

If XOM thinks that PAO is so great, then why is there so little of it in their flagship product?
27.gif



Cost, as with all oil companies. Oil is blended to a certain price point. XOM is no different, at the end of the qtr the only thing that matters is profit.
 
Originally Posted By: stenerson
From what I've read here it seems that the true or best synthetics
are optimized poly ester based.


I don't necessarily buy that. I think the best performing engine oils are a blend of different stocks, with each contributing something to the overall performance. Just as an example, its been stated many times that Group III+ synthetics are better carriers for many additives than Group IV synthetic base stocks. I don't know if I fully believe the claim that Group V stock "competes" with additives to bond with metal surfaces, but the possibility does make me think that Group V may be better as part of the additive package than as the dominant stock in the finished product.

Sorry, but don't count me in the "buy Redline and never look back" crowd. Redline makes some fantastic products, but I don't know that all that goodness really derives from the base stock, nor do I think its always worth the exorbitant price in most applications.
 
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