I am thinking of installing a TP based bypass oil filter on my 2003 Toyota Echo. Which one is better? Frantz recommends replacing TP every 2000 miles for street driving. Anyone knows what is the replacement interval for the OEM full flow filter?
Which bypass filter - Frantz or Motorguard?
- Thread starter sifan
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Either one will be much more effective than the OEM filter. Look at installation and filter change, and decide which one you would like to work with.
I would think with a good synthetic oil 2000 mile filter changed is too frequent. When I ran a Frantz on an oil cooled turbo engine with regular dino oil I changed it every 2000 and that comes up fast. If a non turbo engine can run 50% farther, and synthetic can run twice as long as dino, I don't see why you can't go 6000 mile between tp filter changes.
I would think with a good synthetic oil 2000 mile filter changed is too frequent. When I ran a Frantz on an oil cooled turbo engine with regular dino oil I changed it every 2000 and that comes up fast. If a non turbo engine can run 50% farther, and synthetic can run twice as long as dino, I don't see why you can't go 6000 mile between tp filter changes.
With TP bypass filer, will dino oil and synthetic oil give the same performance? In other words, is there a need or gain to use synthetic oil? I got a reply from Frantz which states the spin on filter should be change once a year.
By the way after 2000 miles of street driving TP will still hold the same amount of dirt/water regardless which type of oil is used, right? Or the synthetic oil allows the engine to run cleaner?
I have a Gulf Coast Bypass on my 95 Altima, I usually change the tp filter at around 3000 miles, using Mobile 1.( do a search) I have ran 4 UOA All turn up some of the best results you will find posted on theis board. It does not seem to matter when you change the full flow filter, I have done it at 10,000 miles and once ran it out over 30,000,( the cheapest filter I could find too!)and my UOA was still great..
As for synthetic VS dino...I don't know as I have always ran synthetic in this car...but will find out soon. I put Penzzoil Long Life in a couple of weeks ago, and am planning on not changing the TP filter for 5000 miles, at that point i will sample and change the TP filter add a quart of freah oil and wait fot my UOA...will take until DEC before I can give asolid answer..at least for my engine.
I have read a report by a guy that say it doesn't matter..a very indepth test too check it out at http://www.trawlerworld.com/qu_2000_12_4.htm
hope this link is okay, as it is not an adevertisment for anything??? Except pehaps for the Gulf coast filter...which board sponser Ralph Wood sells.
As for synthetic VS dino...I don't know as I have always ran synthetic in this car...but will find out soon. I put Penzzoil Long Life in a couple of weeks ago, and am planning on not changing the TP filter for 5000 miles, at that point i will sample and change the TP filter add a quart of freah oil and wait fot my UOA...will take until DEC before I can give asolid answer..at least for my engine.
I have read a report by a guy that say it doesn't matter..a very indepth test too check it out at http://www.trawlerworld.com/qu_2000_12_4.htm
hope this link is okay, as it is not an adevertisment for anything??? Except pehaps for the Gulf coast filter...which board sponser Ralph Wood sells.
I got another reply from Frantz saying the TP should be replaced after the first 1000 miles and then every 4000 miles with synthetic oil. It also stated the TP must be replaced when it is clogged. The way to detect it is by running the engine for 15 minutes and check if the canister remains cold.
deepsquat- Did you install the bypass filter by yourself or by someone else? How did you come about the mounting bracket and where did you place it in your car? Did you tap into the oil pan or return the oil thru the oil cap? Did you use an adaptor?
deepsquat- Did you install the bypass filter by yourself or by someone else? How did you come about the mounting bracket and where did you place it in your car? Did you tap into the oil pan or return the oil thru the oil cap? Did you use an adaptor?
I change my Motor Guard every 4,000 miles on my Toyota Camry 4 cylinder. It has been my experience that the wear rate is very low with clean oil. It doesn't seem to matter if the oil is synthetic or conventional. The additive package is the main difference. I have synthetic in my Camry but I don't think it is necessary. If you don't change the filter often enough to keep the oil clean the results will be the same. For maximum life the oil must be analytically clean 100% of the time plus enough new oil must be added to keep the additive package up. My Subaru was in excellent condition at 240,000 miles changing a Frantz every 12,000 miles and adding a quart of oil. I put about 12,000 a year on the car driving to work and back. I picked a holiday. When the holiday came I changed the filter. The lab told me that at that filter change interval I should drain the oil about every 50,000. I changed the oil about 4 times. I had a Frantz adapter that allowed me to toss the almost useless full flow filter. If I had kept the full flow filter I would have changed it about every 2 years. I have a letter from the Marion County Sheriff in Salem, Oregon. It is 10 years old. They change the Frantz every 2 to 3,000 miles and the full flow every year. I haven't sold the Frantz in 10 years and haven't kept up with them. Your engine doesn't know the difference. All it wants is continuously clean oil. I personally prefer the Motor Guard because it is the easiest to service. When Motor Guard went to the more lucrative industrial filtration I didn't mind going back to Frantz. The people at Motor Guard don't understand why I now sell so many filters. It's because I reach a lot of people that understand the importance of clean oil.
Changing the Frantz every 2000 miles would be a little rediculous for my 4 cylinder very clean running engines under my kind of use. It would be about right for a big V8 to get maximum life. When Frantz and Motor Guard came out engines were generating a lot of soot. Many had poor crankcase ventilation. The filters had to work their tails off. I haven't seen a sludged up element in years except a few badly neglected filters. Frantz and Motor Guard have always assumed that you are operating under the worst possible conditions. One problem is the less effective filter makers are making unrealistic change interval claims that Frantz and the other submicronic filter makers can't beat without a higher wear rate. When it gets right down to it only the equipment owner can best determine the correct filter change intervals. How does someone in California tell someone in North Dakota how often they should change their filter? In the old days the oil got black before it got dirty. Similar to a diesel engine. These days the oil can be very dirty and look very clean on the dipstick such as ATF. There is no doubting the importance of proper filtration when you see a white roll of paper after it has cleaned the transmission fluid. The best thing to flush out a transmission is clean fluid.
I got some Flex-A-Lite adapters to inspect. The Chevy V8 models had the wrong O rings. I called Flex-A-Lite and they said they had fixed it. I had a couple of new full flow filters that I robbed the gaskets off of the Frantz sandwitch adapters also took a full flow filter gasket as long as it wasn't an odd ball shape. My Camry has an undersized mount. I put a Chevy V 8 adapter plate on the lathe and cut it down. You do what you gotta do.
Ralph
Changing the Frantz every 2000 miles would be a little rediculous for my 4 cylinder very clean running engines under my kind of use. It would be about right for a big V8 to get maximum life. When Frantz and Motor Guard came out engines were generating a lot of soot. Many had poor crankcase ventilation. The filters had to work their tails off. I haven't seen a sludged up element in years except a few badly neglected filters. Frantz and Motor Guard have always assumed that you are operating under the worst possible conditions. One problem is the less effective filter makers are making unrealistic change interval claims that Frantz and the other submicronic filter makers can't beat without a higher wear rate. When it gets right down to it only the equipment owner can best determine the correct filter change intervals. How does someone in California tell someone in North Dakota how often they should change their filter? In the old days the oil got black before it got dirty. Similar to a diesel engine. These days the oil can be very dirty and look very clean on the dipstick such as ATF. There is no doubting the importance of proper filtration when you see a white roll of paper after it has cleaned the transmission fluid. The best thing to flush out a transmission is clean fluid.
I got some Flex-A-Lite adapters to inspect. The Chevy V8 models had the wrong O rings. I called Flex-A-Lite and they said they had fixed it. I had a couple of new full flow filters that I robbed the gaskets off of the Frantz sandwitch adapters also took a full flow filter gasket as long as it wasn't an odd ball shape. My Camry has an undersized mount. I put a Chevy V 8 adapter plate on the lathe and cut it down. You do what you gotta do.
Ralph
deepsquat- Did you install the bypass filter by yourself or by someone else? How did you come about the mounting bracket and where did you place it in your car? Did you tap into the oil pan or return the oil thru the oil cap? Did you use an adaptor?
I did do the install myself, I used the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter...I actually did not use the mounting braket...no room.. I simply placed it in the "V" shaped area of my electric fan shroud...no interferance to the blades...and zip tied it in place..I know this doesn't sound all that great..but it has been there for 3 years and has no reason at all to come loose..it is not a moving part...I zip tied it to the shround itself ( made a chain of the ties) and to a radiator hold down bolt.
I did do the install myself, I used the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter...I actually did not use the mounting braket...no room.. I simply placed it in the "V" shaped area of my electric fan shroud...no interferance to the blades...and zip tied it in place..I know this doesn't sound all that great..but it has been there for 3 years and has no reason at all to come loose..it is not a moving part...I zip tied it to the shround itself ( made a chain of the ties) and to a radiator hold down bolt.
While changing oil yesterday, I surveyed the chasis and engine bay to locate an installation site for a by pass oil filter. The only available and logical place is the space between the front grill and the radiator.
I cut a piece of paper based on the dimensions of Frantz filter, and tried to fit it into the space. Then I realized that Frantz canister would not go in from the top of engine bay, and I would need to remove the front skirt to pass it thru from below during installation. Removing the front skirt may take me some time since I have never done it before. The Motor Guard filter can be opened in halves which might go thru from the top and reduce my frustration and time. If deepsquat can tied it using only plastic ties, it makes Motor Guard even more attractive.
deepsquat - Does the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter accept returned oil from the by pass filter? I do not think I can tap into the oil pan of my car because it is mostly part of the aluminum engine block with one steel sheet metal on the bottom housing the drain plug. If return oil thru the oil cap, I am concerned that there is not enough clearance between the engine and hood for the fitting.
Ralph - I sent you a personal email requesting info on the Mortor Guard filter last week and never heard back from you. Can you provide me the parts and prices for installing a Motor Guard filter on my 2003 Toyota Echo? Will the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter also fit my car?
I cut a piece of paper based on the dimensions of Frantz filter, and tried to fit it into the space. Then I realized that Frantz canister would not go in from the top of engine bay, and I would need to remove the front skirt to pass it thru from below during installation. Removing the front skirt may take me some time since I have never done it before. The Motor Guard filter can be opened in halves which might go thru from the top and reduce my frustration and time. If deepsquat can tied it using only plastic ties, it makes Motor Guard even more attractive.
deepsquat - Does the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter accept returned oil from the by pass filter? I do not think I can tap into the oil pan of my car because it is mostly part of the aluminum engine block with one steel sheet metal on the bottom housing the drain plug. If return oil thru the oil cap, I am concerned that there is not enough clearance between the engine and hood for the fitting.
Ralph - I sent you a personal email requesting info on the Mortor Guard filter last week and never heard back from you. Can you provide me the parts and prices for installing a Motor Guard filter on my 2003 Toyota Echo? Will the Permacool Universal sandwich adapter also fit my car?
Sifan,
If the Echo has a 2 1/2 od filter gasket like my Camry four it may also have a smaller mount. The Perma-Cool adapter has a 2 3/4 O ring that leaked around the outer edge of the mount. The universal adapter has a Chevy adapter plate which I cut down to fit the small mounts and used a viton flat gasket. In the old days Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Ford, VW and just about everything took the same adapter gasket size. The Perma-Cool sandwich adapter has a port for pressure to the filter and one for the clean oil return. All of the oil goes thru the full flow filter but a small stream of oil is going to the Motor Guard to be cleaned first. It is simple and very effective. I have never looked under the hood of the Echo. I managed to get three Motor Guards under the hood on my Camry. On my Subaru Legacy I left the ATF and fuel filters in the box and just laid them in a low place behind the engineair cleaner. Under the hood isn't the best place to put a one qt container of gasoline. It has enough capacity that it won't need to be changed for 200,000 miles unless I got a bad tank of fuel. The Motor Guard comes in a box 5 1/2" by 5 1/2" by 8". The Motor Guard has the T handle which gives it the advantage on many installations. I just got a call from one of the guys in KY that is putting a M-30 on a new 6.0 Powerstroke Ford. He is putting it under the hood. I told him it will need to be changed every 2,000 miles. The advantage is the M-30 is the easiest to change of any filter. There is no assembly you just lift out the old element and push in a new element and tighten the tee handle. It takes a little larger element than the Frantz. The seal is better at the core. The seal at the core is critical for fuel. For fuel it is better to splurge and use the special Motor Guard elements for gasoline. On the other hand the color of the Motor Guard element is about the same color as the contamination in gasoline. Everything shows up in the white paper. Choices - choices -
I am going to set up the fuel filters so that they will take either the model M-723 is 1 1/2 id. I can send you information on the Motor Guard to your regular address if you would like. Motor Guard has excellent instructions. They are very useful.
Ralph
If the Echo has a 2 1/2 od filter gasket like my Camry four it may also have a smaller mount. The Perma-Cool adapter has a 2 3/4 O ring that leaked around the outer edge of the mount. The universal adapter has a Chevy adapter plate which I cut down to fit the small mounts and used a viton flat gasket. In the old days Toyota, Nissan, Chrysler, Ford, VW and just about everything took the same adapter gasket size. The Perma-Cool sandwich adapter has a port for pressure to the filter and one for the clean oil return. All of the oil goes thru the full flow filter but a small stream of oil is going to the Motor Guard to be cleaned first. It is simple and very effective. I have never looked under the hood of the Echo. I managed to get three Motor Guards under the hood on my Camry. On my Subaru Legacy I left the ATF and fuel filters in the box and just laid them in a low place behind the engineair cleaner. Under the hood isn't the best place to put a one qt container of gasoline. It has enough capacity that it won't need to be changed for 200,000 miles unless I got a bad tank of fuel. The Motor Guard comes in a box 5 1/2" by 5 1/2" by 8". The Motor Guard has the T handle which gives it the advantage on many installations. I just got a call from one of the guys in KY that is putting a M-30 on a new 6.0 Powerstroke Ford. He is putting it under the hood. I told him it will need to be changed every 2,000 miles. The advantage is the M-30 is the easiest to change of any filter. There is no assembly you just lift out the old element and push in a new element and tighten the tee handle. It takes a little larger element than the Frantz. The seal is better at the core. The seal at the core is critical for fuel. For fuel it is better to splurge and use the special Motor Guard elements for gasoline. On the other hand the color of the Motor Guard element is about the same color as the contamination in gasoline. Everything shows up in the white paper. Choices - choices -
I am going to set up the fuel filters so that they will take either the model M-723 is 1 1/2 id. I can send you information on the Motor Guard to your regular address if you would like. Motor Guard has excellent instructions. They are very useful.
Ralph
Ralph, you have me sold on the motorguard..when my wife buys a car in a couple of month I will purchase on from you, sounds cleaner then the Gulf Coast.
BTW, my Gulf Coast leaks ever so slightly, when I put a tight roll of TP in it, ..like right now...if I use a roll that has a slightly loose fit...no leaks..but right now, and at other times, I get a slight drip coming off the filter...hope that wont happen with the Motor guard
BTW, my Gulf Coast leaks ever so slightly, when I put a tight roll of TP in it, ..like right now...if I use a roll that has a slightly loose fit...no leaks..but right now, and at other times, I get a slight drip coming off the filter...hope that wont happen with the Motor guard
Ralph,
Please send the Motor Guard info to my private email address. From the photos on your web site I see two variations of Motor Guard with fittings on either the top or the bottom. Can a customer choose either configuration?
Since the Motor Guard has two halves, is there a rubber seal between them? If so, how often should it be replaced? Will it leak oil in the long run as deepsquat concerns? Unlike Frantz's web site I do not find any listing of spare parts for Motor Guard.
What concerns me now the most is the availability of a suitable sandwich adaptor. If no such an adaptor readily available since I have no resources to fabricate one, I will be forced to buy from Frantz or Amsoil. The problem with Frantz is how to return the oil. The Amsoil BMK-13 is a very attractive option which I have seen someone installed on his Echo. It will be my last choice because I still like the down to earth approach of TP filtering technology.
Thanks,
Simon
Please send the Motor Guard info to my private email address. From the photos on your web site I see two variations of Motor Guard with fittings on either the top or the bottom. Can a customer choose either configuration?
Since the Motor Guard has two halves, is there a rubber seal between them? If so, how often should it be replaced? Will it leak oil in the long run as deepsquat concerns? Unlike Frantz's web site I do not find any listing of spare parts for Motor Guard.
What concerns me now the most is the availability of a suitable sandwich adaptor. If no such an adaptor readily available since I have no resources to fabricate one, I will be forced to buy from Frantz or Amsoil. The problem with Frantz is how to return the oil. The Amsoil BMK-13 is a very attractive option which I have seen someone installed on his Echo. It will be my last choice because I still like the down to earth approach of TP filtering technology.
Thanks,
Simon
Deepsquat,
The reason the Motor Guard doesn't leak is simple. The mating surfaces are as smooth as glass and the O-ring is also smooth. That is why the full flow filter normally doesn't leak. The mount is very smooth. If a Motor Guard leaks it is defective or has something pinched in the gasket. I have been sending filters to owners of expensive boats that would not tolerate a drop of oil in the bilge. One guy that has a Motor Guard M-30 on a marine vessel in Canada wasn't too happy that he had to change the O-ring every time he changed the fuel filter. The diesel fuel was swelling the O-ring, it wouldn't go back into the groove. I sent him a Viton O-ring to replace the Buna-N O-ring. That made him happy. Viton is expensive. Buna-N is the normal material. It works very well for motor oil. Motor Guard doesn't use silicone to glue in the O-ring. They want you to wipe off everything and make sure the O-ring is in the groove.
It is common for the gasket to stick to the top half and be lifted out of it's groove. It isn't unusual for a O-ring to last for years. For a Motor Guard you need a strong element 4 1/4 diameter. The last sheet will try to pinch in the O-ring.
Send me your regular mailing address and I will send you a free cure for your leaky filter -- a new M-30 should take care of the problem
I have been busy. I got a call from an old Frantz user yesterday. His old VW super Beetle engine with 360,000 miles on it finally went south. A mechanic told him it was probably because of the Frantz. We did a lot of VW's back in the 60's. That's a lot of miles for a Beetle. The grease monkey told him paper had probably gotten in the engine
Ralph
[ November 06, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]
The reason the Motor Guard doesn't leak is simple. The mating surfaces are as smooth as glass and the O-ring is also smooth. That is why the full flow filter normally doesn't leak. The mount is very smooth. If a Motor Guard leaks it is defective or has something pinched in the gasket. I have been sending filters to owners of expensive boats that would not tolerate a drop of oil in the bilge. One guy that has a Motor Guard M-30 on a marine vessel in Canada wasn't too happy that he had to change the O-ring every time he changed the fuel filter. The diesel fuel was swelling the O-ring, it wouldn't go back into the groove. I sent him a Viton O-ring to replace the Buna-N O-ring. That made him happy. Viton is expensive. Buna-N is the normal material. It works very well for motor oil. Motor Guard doesn't use silicone to glue in the O-ring. They want you to wipe off everything and make sure the O-ring is in the groove.
It is common for the gasket to stick to the top half and be lifted out of it's groove. It isn't unusual for a O-ring to last for years. For a Motor Guard you need a strong element 4 1/4 diameter. The last sheet will try to pinch in the O-ring.
Send me your regular mailing address and I will send you a free cure for your leaky filter -- a new M-30 should take care of the problem
I have been busy. I got a call from an old Frantz user yesterday. His old VW super Beetle engine with 360,000 miles on it finally went south. A mechanic told him it was probably because of the Frantz. We did a lot of VW's back in the 60's. That's a lot of miles for a Beetle. The grease monkey told him paper had probably gotten in the engine
Ralph
[ November 06, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: RalphPWood ]
Sifan,
Not set up to well for sending info by email.
Motor Guard has the conventional M-30 that hooks up similar to the Frantz. The M-60 is designed to plumb into hard piping with 1/2"pipe. You loosen the T handle and the bottom drops off. I use those at work. I put brackets on them and use them for locations where there is no room to lift the top off such as up under a truck body. They are easy to adapt for ATF fluid. The older Ford Powerstrokes, for example, had no room under the hood. I have made my life too complicated with too many choices. I am a natural born problem solver. For fuel I put a drain valve in the bottom and shut off valves at the in and out. The M-60 and M-30 have no vacuum leak problems. They can filter about 50 times better than the stock filter. Put one upstream of the stock filters and all the stock filters get is precleaned fuel. The stock filters should never be in need of changing. I'm not sure what Frantz has now. One of the guys sent me a Frantz adapter that has only the pressure port. It is a very high quality adapter but I like to have both pressure and return in the adapter. I have a few Frantz adapters with both the pressure and return ports. The old Frantz adapters for Toyotas, Fords, Chryslers, etc were model 1750 DUAL P/R-A. If one will fit I will send it to you. With the Motor Guard I really don't want to get into the adapter business. I don't get a price break on them. I can adapt one to fit the small mount for what it costs me for shipping and the adapter. Round it off to an extra 30 bucks. I get them from jegs.com.
Instead of the Chevy adapter plate adapting the adapter to a big mount it will adapt the adapter to a smaller mount. Watch out for people telling you their filter adapter will fit the Toyota mounts. The larger Frantz gasket might work fine.
I just got the Flexalite adapter from Jegs for the bosses new 6.0 Chevy pickup. He said he will have the pickup worn out before I get it on. I made the mistake of telling him I could get him an adapter that takes the stock filter. The universal takes a Ford filter.
Ralph
Not set up to well for sending info by email.
Motor Guard has the conventional M-30 that hooks up similar to the Frantz. The M-60 is designed to plumb into hard piping with 1/2"pipe. You loosen the T handle and the bottom drops off. I use those at work. I put brackets on them and use them for locations where there is no room to lift the top off such as up under a truck body. They are easy to adapt for ATF fluid. The older Ford Powerstrokes, for example, had no room under the hood. I have made my life too complicated with too many choices. I am a natural born problem solver. For fuel I put a drain valve in the bottom and shut off valves at the in and out. The M-60 and M-30 have no vacuum leak problems. They can filter about 50 times better than the stock filter. Put one upstream of the stock filters and all the stock filters get is precleaned fuel. The stock filters should never be in need of changing. I'm not sure what Frantz has now. One of the guys sent me a Frantz adapter that has only the pressure port. It is a very high quality adapter but I like to have both pressure and return in the adapter. I have a few Frantz adapters with both the pressure and return ports. The old Frantz adapters for Toyotas, Fords, Chryslers, etc were model 1750 DUAL P/R-A. If one will fit I will send it to you. With the Motor Guard I really don't want to get into the adapter business. I don't get a price break on them. I can adapt one to fit the small mount for what it costs me for shipping and the adapter. Round it off to an extra 30 bucks. I get them from jegs.com.
Instead of the Chevy adapter plate adapting the adapter to a big mount it will adapt the adapter to a smaller mount. Watch out for people telling you their filter adapter will fit the Toyota mounts. The larger Frantz gasket might work fine.
I just got the Flexalite adapter from Jegs for the bosses new 6.0 Chevy pickup. He said he will have the pickup worn out before I get it on. I made the mistake of telling him I could get him an adapter that takes the stock filter. The universal takes a Ford filter.
Ralph
Ralph,
I have tried to send you emails several times for the last several days and they could not be delivered. I went ahead and got my self a Frantz oil by pass filter from eBay this afternoon. But, I am still interested in your AT and fuel by pass filters.
My questions are:
1. Is it efficient to use a sandwich adaptor for the returned oil? From the guys in the following thread
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001076#000002
they picked oil cap for returning point due to lower pressure. One guy even plugged the returning port on his sandwich adaptor.
2. Can your fuel filter be mounded vertically to the battery plate? Since the stock fuel filter resides in the gas tank along with the fuel pump, this means I still need to replace the stock fuel filter except the engine will always get the clean fuel, right?
3. Does your AT filter need any special setup than your oil filter? I believe my car is equipped with an AT cooler that is intergrated with the radiator.
I am planning to move the car battery from the engine bay to the trunk to accommodate additional by pass filters.
Thanks,
Simon
I have tried to send you emails several times for the last several days and they could not be delivered. I went ahead and got my self a Frantz oil by pass filter from eBay this afternoon. But, I am still interested in your AT and fuel by pass filters.
My questions are:
1. Is it efficient to use a sandwich adaptor for the returned oil? From the guys in the following thread
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=001076#000002
they picked oil cap for returning point due to lower pressure. One guy even plugged the returning port on his sandwich adaptor.
2. Can your fuel filter be mounded vertically to the battery plate? Since the stock fuel filter resides in the gas tank along with the fuel pump, this means I still need to replace the stock fuel filter except the engine will always get the clean fuel, right?
3. Does your AT filter need any special setup than your oil filter? I believe my car is equipped with an AT cooler that is intergrated with the radiator.
I am planning to move the car battery from the engine bay to the trunk to accommodate additional by pass filters.
Thanks,
Simon
I had my web site person take care of the email problem. It's working now.
Filters are a lot simpler. The Frantz is a good filter. I like the Motor Guard better but as a dealer you won't get many complaints on either of them. They both hook up the same except the Motor Guard doesn't need an external fitting for the ATF filter. The ATF filter has the element bypass orifice in the filter. All you need for the ATF filter is to put it in series with the oil cooler. My Camry has 5/16" lines going to the radiator. You need to run the fluid thru the filter. That MG will filter either way so you don't need to worry about which way the fluid travels. Personally I would prefer to put the Frantz on the ATF because it doesn't need to be changed as often as the motor oil filter. I always put the Motor Guard on the motor oil because it is the least messy to change. Of course everyone has an opinion. You should find a Frantz ATF adapter. I sold my last one. Someone told me they bought a ATF adapter from Frantz recently. At one time Frantz had a adapter for every need. I don't know what they have now.
If I put an adapter on my car it is going to be one with both hoses going to it. If it is for cold weather use I will use the Motor Guard ATF filter with the element bypass orifice. The element bypass orifice will heat up the filter faster with thick motor oil. The ATF filter will only work with ATF or with a sandwich adapter. At one time Frantz sold a filter heater. California is one thing; Fairbanks Alaska is another.
Motor Guard doesn't recommend using their filters for fuel. They are afraid someone will spill gasoline when changing the filter. The Motor Guard is the best of the filters for fuel but I understand their point. I don't think under the hood is the best place for a large fuel filter. I have mine under the hood away from the front. What if you had a wreck and smashed one.
Ralph
Filters are a lot simpler. The Frantz is a good filter. I like the Motor Guard better but as a dealer you won't get many complaints on either of them. They both hook up the same except the Motor Guard doesn't need an external fitting for the ATF filter. The ATF filter has the element bypass orifice in the filter. All you need for the ATF filter is to put it in series with the oil cooler. My Camry has 5/16" lines going to the radiator. You need to run the fluid thru the filter. That MG will filter either way so you don't need to worry about which way the fluid travels. Personally I would prefer to put the Frantz on the ATF because it doesn't need to be changed as often as the motor oil filter. I always put the Motor Guard on the motor oil because it is the least messy to change. Of course everyone has an opinion. You should find a Frantz ATF adapter. I sold my last one. Someone told me they bought a ATF adapter from Frantz recently. At one time Frantz had a adapter for every need. I don't know what they have now.
If I put an adapter on my car it is going to be one with both hoses going to it. If it is for cold weather use I will use the Motor Guard ATF filter with the element bypass orifice. The element bypass orifice will heat up the filter faster with thick motor oil. The ATF filter will only work with ATF or with a sandwich adapter. At one time Frantz sold a filter heater. California is one thing; Fairbanks Alaska is another.
Motor Guard doesn't recommend using their filters for fuel. They are afraid someone will spill gasoline when changing the filter. The Motor Guard is the best of the filters for fuel but I understand their point. I don't think under the hood is the best place for a large fuel filter. I have mine under the hood away from the front. What if you had a wreck and smashed one.
Ralph
Ralph - Thanks for answering my questions. After unsuccessfully attempts to contact you thru emails I went ahead to buy AT and fuel by pass filters from Frantz last Friday.
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Are you sure you don't mean PermaCool when you say Flexalite?
Anyway Jegs sells a dual remote that also takes Chevy V8 filters (13/16 threads). I'm not sure in the single mount version
here it is....
[ November 11, 2003, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Gary,
Jegs also sells Flex-a-lite sandwich adapters. I can't find them in the catalog but I called Fex-a-lite and was told to ask for them. You can also get them from NAPA. Jegs is pretty reasonable on the price of the Perma-Cool adapters. I like dealing with jegs.com. The adapters are for oil coolers. The only reason I can use them for the highly restrictive Motor Guard is the system is designed to deal with a clogged oil cooler. The Motor Guard is the same as a clogged oil cooler. The adapters for cars with the relief valve in the filter like a Ford, Chrysler, etc, will have a relief valve. The oil simply takes a short cut to the full flow filter then to the engine parts.
With the GM adapters it gets more complicated. The Motor Guard causes the relief valve in the mount to open and bypass both filters. You have converted your system to a straight bypass system like a 53 Chevy. That wouldn't be a problem for a well maintained engine but might be a problem for some engines with large chunks circulating in the oil. What do you do? You can drill the adapter. If you drill too large a hole the resistance or pressure drop thru the adapter won't be enough to feed the Motor Guard. Drill it too small and the stock relief will stay open. You can convert the GM system by plugging the GM relief valve and using a sandwich adapter such as a Perma-Cool universal adapter with a Ford filter.
On the bosses 6.0 Chevrolet pickup I will use a Flex-a-lite sandwich adapter with the thermostat relief valve and drill a 1/4" relief orifice. The Motor Guard won't get much oil until the relief valve closes after the oil heats up. The pressure drop thru the 1/4 orifice should heat up the Motor Guard. If the oil pressure reads good on the gauge and both filters get hot it will work. Make sure you have a good engine before installing these systems or a new rig. I would install the system on my new rig as soon as I get home then remove the system if the engine turned out to be a lemon. When I drive off the lot I probably won't see them again. They can keep their free oil change. Engine problems are rare these days. Problems usually show up before you install the submicronic bypass filter.
I am pretty sure the 6.0 will take the Flex-a-lite part 3966. The same as my Chevrolet Celebrity four cylinder in my Farmall H tractor. Right now I have a Perma-Cool universal 189 with a Fram filter on it. As you can imagine it is well filtered
I don't do dual remotes unless it is for big oil lines ATF filtration or if the full flow filter is hard to get to.
I set up a Duramax Allison ATF spin on filter mount to take a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter universal 189. It allows larger spin on filters with the Motor Guard to clean the ATF. You can use as large a size as you want limited by the clearance you need. For some 1/2"-16 mount and adding a sandwich adapter to the Ford mount. A dual remote system that cleans oil without restricting the flow. I love sandwich adapters. Been using them for about 20 years. I don't punch many oil pans. The Duramax looks like it will take Flex-a-lite 3964. They have the spring and ball relief valve. Squeeze a M-30 under the hood and kick butt. Drill an element bypass orifice in the Motor Guard and use it in series with an oil cooler for the motor oil. There are a lot of choices. The sandwich adapters are great tools.
Ralph
Jegs also sells Flex-a-lite sandwich adapters. I can't find them in the catalog but I called Fex-a-lite and was told to ask for them. You can also get them from NAPA. Jegs is pretty reasonable on the price of the Perma-Cool adapters. I like dealing with jegs.com. The adapters are for oil coolers. The only reason I can use them for the highly restrictive Motor Guard is the system is designed to deal with a clogged oil cooler. The Motor Guard is the same as a clogged oil cooler. The adapters for cars with the relief valve in the filter like a Ford, Chrysler, etc, will have a relief valve. The oil simply takes a short cut to the full flow filter then to the engine parts.
With the GM adapters it gets more complicated. The Motor Guard causes the relief valve in the mount to open and bypass both filters. You have converted your system to a straight bypass system like a 53 Chevy. That wouldn't be a problem for a well maintained engine but might be a problem for some engines with large chunks circulating in the oil. What do you do? You can drill the adapter. If you drill too large a hole the resistance or pressure drop thru the adapter won't be enough to feed the Motor Guard. Drill it too small and the stock relief will stay open. You can convert the GM system by plugging the GM relief valve and using a sandwich adapter such as a Perma-Cool universal adapter with a Ford filter.
On the bosses 6.0 Chevrolet pickup I will use a Flex-a-lite sandwich adapter with the thermostat relief valve and drill a 1/4" relief orifice. The Motor Guard won't get much oil until the relief valve closes after the oil heats up. The pressure drop thru the 1/4 orifice should heat up the Motor Guard. If the oil pressure reads good on the gauge and both filters get hot it will work. Make sure you have a good engine before installing these systems or a new rig. I would install the system on my new rig as soon as I get home then remove the system if the engine turned out to be a lemon. When I drive off the lot I probably won't see them again. They can keep their free oil change. Engine problems are rare these days. Problems usually show up before you install the submicronic bypass filter.
I am pretty sure the 6.0 will take the Flex-a-lite part 3966. The same as my Chevrolet Celebrity four cylinder in my Farmall H tractor. Right now I have a Perma-Cool universal 189 with a Fram filter on it. As you can imagine it is well filtered
I set up a Duramax Allison ATF spin on filter mount to take a Perma-Cool sandwich adapter universal 189. It allows larger spin on filters with the Motor Guard to clean the ATF. You can use as large a size as you want limited by the clearance you need. For some 1/2"-16 mount and adding a sandwich adapter to the Ford mount. A dual remote system that cleans oil without restricting the flow. I love sandwich adapters. Been using them for about 20 years. I don't punch many oil pans. The Duramax looks like it will take Flex-a-lite 3964. They have the spring and ball relief valve. Squeeze a M-30 under the hood and kick butt. Drill an element bypass orifice in the Motor Guard and use it in series with an oil cooler for the motor oil. There are a lot of choices. The sandwich adapters are great tools.
Ralph
Ralph, I don't know if you got my email..but thank you very much! The Motor guard is very well constructed and I was able to remove the Gulf Coast and install the motor Guard in about 10 minutes.... Thanks again.
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