A friend of mine told me that he found a list of which companies use top tier base stock to formulate thier oils. He said it wasn't here so I've been googling and searching here but in an hour; I've been unable to find it. What he'd told me is that Red Line and Motul used top tier base stock while Amsoil,M1, and others; while really great oils use second tier or tier 2 base stocks. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of the manufacturers base stock used?
Where can I find info regarding base stocks?
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No such thing as "top tier" base stocks per se - that's a fuel quality apellation. Basetocks are now typically proprietary (as the majors dont want you to know they use "conventional" and call it synthetic
) German long life oils will use high quality and expensive materials to produce and achieve the approvals they have to meet ( MB 229.xx. BMW LL XX, VW 50x.x etc) You are mainly "up the creek" getting a true synthetic ILSAC GF5 oil in common grades of 5w20/30, though Amsoil signature have been know nto market a quality product.
I suggest you do some reading about oil "Groups" and "Viscosity Index" and "Lubricity" so you can see where conventional lubricants were 20 years ago, and where they are now.
I suggest you do some reading about oil "Groups" and "Viscosity Index" and "Lubricity" so you can see where conventional lubricants were 20 years ago, and where they are now.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
A friend of mine told me that he found a list of which companies use top tier base stock to formulate thier oils.
Why not have your friend supply you with that so-called list?
And remember there is more to a formulated lubricant than just base oils.
A friend of mine told me that he found a list of which companies use top tier base stock to formulate thier oils.
Why not have your friend supply you with that so-called list?
And remember there is more to a formulated lubricant than just base oils.
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I have read that base stocks for type III synthetics come from Korea and too from refineries along the Gulf Of Mexico.
I wouldn't be that concerned about oils that is Group 3, as if you consider Mobil 1 it still conforms to the same specs it did when it didn't contain Group 3.
Originally Posted By: 04SVT
A friend of mine told me that he found a list of which companies use top tier base stock to formulate thier oils. He said it wasn't here so I've been googling and searching here but in an hour; I've been unable to find it. What he'd told me is that Red Line and Motul used top tier base stock while Amsoil,M1, and others; while really great oils use second tier or tier 2 base stocks. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of the manufacturers base stock used?
No such list. Plus, when you do find it, it will be outdated and mostly incorrect. And with this outdated list - what purpose will it serve? You absolutely can no longer judge a motor oil by what some supposed expert posts about the base oils on the internet. Plus this list will never be specific as to an oil company's actual product in the bottle, just by company name. All oil companies use various oils through their line-up. Not being harsh, just being realistic.
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
A friend of mine told me that he found a list of which companies use top tier base stock to formulate thier oils. He said it wasn't here so I've been googling and searching here but in an hour; I've been unable to find it. What he'd told me is that Red Line and Motul used top tier base stock while Amsoil,M1, and others; while really great oils use second tier or tier 2 base stocks. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list of the manufacturers base stock used?
No such list. Plus, when you do find it, it will be outdated and mostly incorrect. And with this outdated list - what purpose will it serve? You absolutely can no longer judge a motor oil by what some supposed expert posts about the base oils on the internet. Plus this list will never be specific as to an oil company's actual product in the bottle, just by company name. All oil companies use various oils through their line-up. Not being harsh, just being realistic.
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
BIG JL:
Same spec the other oils of same grade and service category meet when they were group I and II blends.
Same spec the other oils of same grade and service category meet when they were group I and II blends.
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Originally Posted By: Pablo
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
Wait Amsoil raison d'etre is "synthetic" and "Long service". The ONLY way to get there is high group iv/v synthetics.
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
Wait Amsoil raison d'etre is "synthetic" and "Long service". The ONLY way to get there is high group iv/v synthetics.
According to XOM you can't judge oil by TBN either.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
Wait Amsoil raison d'etre is "synthetic" and "Long service". The ONLY way to get there is high group iv/v synthetics.
Maybe re-read my post.
I don't think I said good ingredients aren't important.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
Wait Amsoil raison d'etre is "synthetic" and "Long service". The ONLY way to get there is high group iv/v synthetics.
Maybe re-read my post.
I don't think I said good ingredients aren't important.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
No such list. Plus, when you do find it, it will be outdated and mostly incorrect. And with this outdated list - what purpose will it serve? You absolutely can no longer judge a motor oil by what some supposed expert posts about the base oils on the internet. Plus this list will never be specific as to an oil company's actual product in the bottle, just by company name. All oil companies use various oils through their line-up. Not being harsh, just being realistic.
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
No such list. Plus, when you do find it, it will be outdated and mostly incorrect. And with this outdated list - what purpose will it serve? You absolutely can no longer judge a motor oil by what some supposed expert posts about the base oils on the internet. Plus this list will never be specific as to an oil company's actual product in the bottle, just by company name. All oil companies use various oils through their line-up. Not being harsh, just being realistic.
I mean I can post Redline is made with esters and PAO. Amsoil SS is made with PAO and esters. So??? Means NOTHING. It really doesn't. Not trying to dissuade you from learning about motor oil compositions. It is interesting, in fact fascinating really. But even in your post you are off in the weeds. Tier 1? Holiday whozey whatty?
If you want a long life synthetic you really do need the best stocks. The older group 3 really dont cut it as what we once loved as "synthetic". the Newest GTL and slack wax stocks are good stuff to have in the pot though - This primarily and purportedly makes up your Helix Ultra and M1 0w40 which make many high German approval lists.
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I don't really want to run a anything more heavy than 30 weight. As one of the cars is specified to run 20 weight per the manufacturer. Even though the engine is extremely high horsepower and is driven hard everytime I'm behind the wheel. The engines bearing clearances are still very close to stock for street use.
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Without buying on line, you have Castrol Syntec 0w30 and Rotella T5 10w30. I would be hesitant to try Valvoline Synpower MST 5w30 low/mid saps diesel lube you can get at, IIRC Pepboys. All these are high(er) HTHS. Just look for ACEA A3 B3/B4
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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
No such thing as "top tier" base stocks per se - that's a fuel quality apellation.
Actually, Lubrizol, for one, uses the term "Top Tier" for oil...
"Top Tier
This premium market tier represents the highest levels of engine oil performance seen in the European market. Predominantly 5w30s, these engine oils are designed to operate in vehicles with the latest aftertreatment systems. They may be characterized by the requirements of the ACEA C Sequences upon which many of the latest OEM specifications are built. This tier may be further segmented by SAPS level (Mid or Low) and by HTHS (>3.5cP or
Click on the PDF... http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/Markets/default.html
No such thing as "top tier" base stocks per se - that's a fuel quality apellation.
Actually, Lubrizol, for one, uses the term "Top Tier" for oil...
"Top Tier
This premium market tier represents the highest levels of engine oil performance seen in the European market. Predominantly 5w30s, these engine oils are designed to operate in vehicles with the latest aftertreatment systems. They may be characterized by the requirements of the ACEA C Sequences upon which many of the latest OEM specifications are built. This tier may be further segmented by SAPS level (Mid or Low) and by HTHS (>3.5cP or
Click on the PDF... http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/Markets/default.html
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Top Tier...This premium market tier represents......
Quote:
Upper Mainline...A premium performance tier of....
Please notice the words, "premium market tier, performance tier, Figure 1 illustrates Lubrizol’s segmentation of this market into three broad market tiers, each with distinct performance and value characteristics.."
They are discussing marketing levels.
Quote:
No such thing as "top tier" base stocks per se - that's a fuel quality apellation. Basetocks are now typically proprietary (as the majors dont want you to know they use "conventional" and call it synthetic )
Either way "top tier" is a marketing term and as Arco stated, there is no no such thing as tiers of base oils. The only way base oils are distinguished is by level of refinement and chemistry.
Top Tier...This premium market tier represents......
Quote:
Upper Mainline...A premium performance tier of....
Please notice the words, "premium market tier, performance tier, Figure 1 illustrates Lubrizol’s segmentation of this market into three broad market tiers, each with distinct performance and value characteristics.."
They are discussing marketing levels.
Quote:
No such thing as "top tier" base stocks per se - that's a fuel quality apellation. Basetocks are now typically proprietary (as the majors dont want you to know they use "conventional" and call it synthetic )
Either way "top tier" is a marketing term and as Arco stated, there is no no such thing as tiers of base oils. The only way base oils are distinguished is by level of refinement and chemistry.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Either way "top tier" is a marketing term and as Arco stated, there is no no such thing as tiers of base oils. The only way base oils are distinguished is by level of refinement and chemistry.
Right, I realize that.
Either way "top tier" is a marketing term and as Arco stated, there is no no such thing as tiers of base oils. The only way base oils are distinguished is by level of refinement and chemistry.
Right, I realize that.
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