There are so many,with oil,with leak add,ex,ex.Are that any that are colder?
What type of R-12 do you use?
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R12? You mean R134a?
If You should not use anything but pure refrigerant, oil and a drop of dye in an AC system. The stop leak stuff is real bad news.
If You should not use anything but pure refrigerant, oil and a drop of dye in an AC system. The stop leak stuff is real bad news.
I agree. I'd stick with the plain ol' refrigerant, or maybe put some in with dye added... if you're looking for a leak.
I'd only use the stopleak stuff if I meant to get rid of the car fairly soon- or if it's absolute junk that you have no intention of fixing properly (I might put some in my rusty '85 Ford truck). A properly functioning system doesn't need it. Stopleak swells seals and other rubber parts. It might stop a leak... but in the long run, it isn't good for rubber parts, and CAN make them come apart with time (and excess stopleak).
Adding oil is usually unneccesary unless you've had major work done on a system (like replacing a major component)... and too much oil will reduce cooling efficiency. I wouldn't do it unless the system has had a MAJOR leak with lots of oil visibly coming out of it... and said leak has been repaired. Even then... it's a guestimate at best, as you have no way of knowing how much oil is already in the system.
I'd only use the stopleak stuff if I meant to get rid of the car fairly soon- or if it's absolute junk that you have no intention of fixing properly (I might put some in my rusty '85 Ford truck). A properly functioning system doesn't need it. Stopleak swells seals and other rubber parts. It might stop a leak... but in the long run, it isn't good for rubber parts, and CAN make them come apart with time (and excess stopleak).
Adding oil is usually unneccesary unless you've had major work done on a system (like replacing a major component)... and too much oil will reduce cooling efficiency. I wouldn't do it unless the system has had a MAJOR leak with lots of oil visibly coming out of it... and said leak has been repaired. Even then... it's a guestimate at best, as you have no way of knowing how much oil is already in the system.
with r12 systems i awalys had good luck using propane. real r12 is sooo expensive. propane is better for the enviroment sence leaks dont deplete the ozone.
but dont tell the epa.
but dont tell the epa.
I agree, I used it with my old R12 based system. Ran very cold and with minimal load on the engine. Under the name "Duracool".
Against FEDERAL laws to put flammables in an automotive AC system.
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Against FEDERAL laws to put flammables in an automotive AC system.
r 134 is flammable.
not as bad as propane but still is.
the propane blends have an odorant so you can detect leaks.
moot point as the fuel is much more dangeous.
Quote:
Against FEDERAL laws to put flammables in an automotive AC system.
The rules are regarding the direct replacment of R12 with a hydrocarbon refrigerant. You must first have the system purged out, retrofit with the R134 attachments and then you can legally run Duracool.
Duracool is the largest company selling these kits and they directly tell you this and that it is legal. But just reading the EPA site, they seem to word things in a rather "unclear" way I think.
A few months ago I was reading the effects of R134, dang they were scary. Cancer, heart failures, and poor AC performance.
I wish we kept R12
Cheap and Chilly!
Where'd you read that? Because r134a is one of the two chemicals used in those compressed cans of air duster things. If it were as bad as you say, I doubt that would be used.
Yes, I've gotten r134a to burn, but it took a propane torch to do it. If your car got that hot, you wouldn't be in any position to care whether r134a burns or not...
Yes, I've gotten r134a to burn, but it took a propane torch to do it. If your car got that hot, you wouldn't be in any position to care whether r134a burns or not...
Read this
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
http://www.epa.gov/Ozone/snap/refrigerants/hc-12a.html
May hydrocarbon refrigerants be used to replace CFC-12, commonly referred to as "Freon® ," in cars?
No. It is illegal to use hydrocarbon refrigerants like HC-12a® and DURACOOL 12a® as substitutes for CFC-12 in automobile or truck air conditioning under any circumstances.
Most things in life are illegal. That doesn't mean they aren't effective.
Folks, don't try burning R134A. I don't know if it'll burn or not... but I was shown a video once that said that R134A burned via an engine (sucked into the intake/pumped out the exhaust), it forms a compound quite similar to nerve gas. Don't know for a fact that it's true... but I wouldn't risk paying around with a can of 134A and a torch just for laughs.
Folks, don't try burning R134A. I don't know if it'll burn or not... but I was shown a video once that said that R134A burned via an engine (sucked into the intake/pumped out the exhaust), it forms a compound quite similar to nerve gas. Don't know for a fact that it's true... but I wouldn't risk paying around with a can of 134A and a torch just for laughs.
Yes. You cannot "Replace" CFC12(Freon) with HC12a(propane). Replace is defined as simply removing the freon and introducing the propane.
You MUST retrofit first to the R134 system(by attaching the hi and low side fittings) to convert to duracool.
You would have to figure, if using it in autos is illegal in all cases, Duracool would be shut down or forced to label it for no automotive use only.
Here is another quote from right under the one posted earlier,
" Since HC-12a® as submitted for SNAP review, is chemically different from HC-12a®, as reformulated to meet DOT requirements, and since it has a different legal status under the Clean Air Act, users of any substance marketed as HC-12a® should be aware of which HC-12a® they have purchased.
Note that the Clean Air Act does not regulate the use of any of these hydrocarbon refrigerants when they are used as replacements for non-ozone-depleting chemicals such as HFC-134a. However, many states prohibit using flammable refrigerants in motor vehicles, regardless of which original refrigerant was used in the vehicle. "
This says you cant sell duracool to replace CFC12, BUT YOU CAN sell it to replace R134a. This is the reason for the retrofit to 134a fittings.
As onion mentions burning R134a in an engine will produce phosgene gas. http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/phosgene/basics/facts.asp
Burning R12 in an engine will produce phosgene gas as well.
Older AC systems (suction throttling valve systems from the late 1960s) had a vacuum connection to the intake manifold. Some failure modes allowed the R12 to be sucked into the intake through this vacuum connection.
Let's be careful out there.
Burning R12 in an engine will produce phosgene gas as well.
Older AC systems (suction throttling valve systems from the late 1960s) had a vacuum connection to the intake manifold. Some failure modes allowed the R12 to be sucked into the intake through this vacuum connection.
Let's be careful out there.
Every type of refrigerant requires it's own specific charging fittings.
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/fittlist.html
http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/refrigerants/fittlist.html
I would use propane in an A/C system. It seems to me that carrying a few ounces of propane isn't as dangerous as carrying more than 100 pounds of gasoline ? You do that, don't you ?
Well, thank you I suppose
The charge is rather small, 12oz for the average system. It has an odor added to it to make even a slight leak more than easy to smell. And for propane to be explosive it needs to be in exact mixture in the air and ignited. Short of a total failure and full discharge into the cabin with someone using a lighter, there isnt much of a threat. And most cars are not close to being air tight, so any slight amount of the gas would be quickly cleared.
I am more worried carrying any sort of aerosol containers in the cabin. I have personally seen the ability a can of wd40 has when it gets too hot and blows....scary.
When I first read about propane I to had that "WHAT?!?" reaction. I just read more and more about it and it had me less concerned. It is actually a refrigerant as well, known as R290.
I have had enviro-safe in my van for 4 summers now.39 degrees F at the vents!
If you're concerned about flammable don't what ever you do put any gas in the tank!
If you're concerned about flammable don't what ever you do put any gas in the tank!
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