What oil for a flathead Plymouth?

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Originally Posted By: willbur

I got SuperTech ND30 from Walmart


I've never been in a Walmart in CA, so this may not be the case, but in my WM there is a shelf section dedicated to lawn mowers and chain saws. They have spark plugs, 2 cycle mix and "lawn mower oil" There is HD30, ND30 and a SJ rated 10w30 that I'm halfway thinking about sending in for a VOA.
 
Originally Posted By: chainblu
... and a SJ rated 10w30 that I'm halfway thinking about sending in for a VOA.


I think the SuperTech lawn and garden oils are the same as their automotive oils.
 
Originally Posted By: Red91
If you're cleaning the pan and pickup, I don't think you'll have any trouble with detergent 30.


AGREED.

There's really not much else left after that.
 
Yeah, so the thing the cleans old baked on crusted oil and goop best is paint and varnish remover. I have soaked lifter valleys with it to get stuck lifters out, oil pump pick-ups and all sorts of stuff. The varnish and gunk softens right up
smile.gif


I'd prolly pull the plugs and drop some Break-Free gun solvent in each bore. Let it sit at least over night. Re-install the plugs and spin the motor with the starter a few times. That will push it through the ring pack. Usually gets me 20 PSI more on the next test as the rings loosen up (run later dry). Old beat flatties have some taper, and they need free rings to chase the taper ...

These are seriously tough engines. Prolly Chryslers industrial line really, not an actual Plymouth but the specs are the same ...

They have very lazy advance curves in the distributors. I'd get down to the advance weights and make sure they are at least free to move. If you have an old Moroso spring set, I'd put the gold springs in it.

We used to tune the timing by ear. Run them up until they pinged a bit on cheap gas a steep hill, and then take a few degrees back out. That usually came out to about 10~12* initial IIRC
laugh.gif


Decent engines for tough. Not much power, but hard to break
smile.gif


I seem to recall a water distribution tube that ran in the block from front to back. W/o the tube they overheat and crack heads and stuff. Need to check to see if that's there and good enough ...

If the head has to come off for any reason, shave it 0.030" to get a wee bit more CR. It'll help it run batter by quite a bit
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
... Decent engines for tough. Not much power, but hard to break ...
Yes. The two earliest model cars I've personally known that made it past 100K still running well without overhaul or oil guzzling were '50 Dodge and '53 Plymouth flat-heads.
 
Of all the flatties i have worked on (tractors, boats, cars & trucks), the best were the Hudsons with the high nickle iron blocks. The Chrysler industrials were next in line. The blocks last a long time if they don't get to hot ... They were used as the basis of many boat engines. Ran fine and lasted a long time.

Much better iron than the Ford V-8's. IIRC, they had forged cranks in all of them ...
 
Chris, lots of good advice here already. You mean you cannot get ND oil at all? What about Castrol ND-30? How about compressor oil? You just might have to use an ISO grade.

In practice, back on the farm, we ran equipment that had originally specified non-detergent oil, and switched to detergent multigrades as soon as they became available. Of course, we had climatic concerns, too.
 
This can be a fun project ~ Yeh ~ you could pull the pan ~ if it's an easy out ~ but I'd run it with a couple a three quarts of cheap 30W detergent oil and 2 quarts of ATF ~ run the engine till operating temp ~ get the idle up a bit ~ and pull the plug while the engine is still hot ~ and have a look at what comes out ~ once might be enough ```

I'd pull the plugs and put an ounce of Marvel Oil in and let it sit over night ~ to free carbon stuck rings if any ``` I'd run Marvel Oil in the gas (Uncle used it in our fighter planes WWII) ~ I liked that old flat head ``` I would replace the points, plugs and condenser ~ If the distributor cap has Brass inserts ~ I might just clean it up ~ you'll make sure it isn't cracked ~ If it has copper spark plug cables, People won't like that ~ they're the best but it messes with their radios ``` The coils were sometimes weak ~ you might want to replace that unless it runs great ```

Those engine had filters bolted to the engine with an canister oil filter ~

When you put a brass tee ~ at your oil pressure sender ~ to tap off some oil to the Bypass filter ~ you'll put in an 1/16" restrictor to the filter ~ no impact on oil pressure ~ at the same time good filtration ```

Rotella is a good oil ~ I think ~ for that baby ```

Like to watch while you work on it ``` This forum doesn't let you know if there is a post on a thread you start or are watching ```

Good for you ```

Where you are you could use a 30W oil ~ seldom get temp of 30degrees ~ let the engine warm up ~ a bit on those days ```

Richard
 
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Originally Posted By: valley_ranch
This can be a fun project ~ Yeh ~ you could pull the pan ~ if it's an easy out ~ but I'd run it with a couple a three quarts of cheap 30W detergent oil and 2 quarts of ATF ~ run the engine till operating temp ~ get the idle up a bit ~ and pull the plug while the engine is still hot ~ and have a look at what comes out ~ once might be enough ```

Can you explain why you would dilute the detergents in the motor oil with relatively detergent-less ATF?
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Of all the flatties i have worked on (tractors, boats, cars & trucks), the best were the Hudsons with the high nickle iron blocks. The Chrysler industrials were next in line. The blocks last a long time if they don't get to hot ... They were used as the basis of many boat engines. Ran fine and lasted a long time.

Much better iron than the Ford V-8's. IIRC, they had forged cranks in all of them ...


When I was a machinist, flat head Fords were the toughest to machine iron of any. Never resurfaced a Hudson head, but if they put up more of fight than the Ford iron, I'm glad I never saw one.

The flat head Chrysler 6 I had experience with was in my grandfather's 1936 Chris Craft racing runabout. Triple updraft carbed, he ran it until 1975. Possibly reringed once, but maybe not.

The Ford flattie I got to know was the 8BA Ford in my 1949 Merc I lovingly built when I worked at a machine shop.
 
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Yeah, so the thing the cleans old baked on crusted oil and goop best is paint and varnish remover. I have soaked lifter valleys with it to get stuck lifters out, oil pump pick-ups and all sorts of stuff. The varnish and gunk softens right up
smile.gif


I'd prolly pull the plugs and drop some Break-Free gun solvent in each bore. Let it sit at least over night. Re-install the plugs and spin the motor with the starter a few times. That will push it through the ring pack. Usually gets me 20 PSI more on the next test as the rings loosen up (run later dry). Old beat flatties have some taper, and they need free rings to chase the taper ...

These are seriously tough engines. Prolly Chryslers industrial line really, not an actual Plymouth but the specs are the same ...

They have very lazy advance curves in the distributors. I'd get down to the advance weights and make sure they are at least free to move. If you have an old Moroso spring set, I'd put the gold springs in it.

We used to tune the timing by ear. Run them up until they pinged a bit on cheap gas a steep hill, and then take a few degrees back out. That usually came out to about 10~12* initial IIRC
laugh.gif


Decent engines for tough. Not much power, but hard to break
smile.gif


I seem to recall a water distribution tube that ran in the block from front to back. W/o the tube they overheat and crack heads and stuff. Need to check to see if that's there and good enough ...

If the head has to come off for any reason, shave it 0.030" to get a wee bit more CR. It'll help it run batter by quite a bit
smile.gif



It warms my heart to read your tips about working on 50's era engines. I used to drag race 60's small block Chevs and did most of the things you mentioned. I would guess that many readers here don't know the meaning of terms like flattie, distributor, advance weights, advance springs and initial timing.
 
This engine calls out for "Old Tech"
laugh.gif


Originally Posted By: ledslinger
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
Of all the flatties I have worked on (tractors, boats, cars & trucks), the best were the Hudsons with the high nickle iron blocks. The Chrysler industrials were next in line. The blocks last a long time if they don't get to hot ... They were used as the basis of many boat engines. Ran fine and lasted a long time.

Much better iron than the Ford V-8's. IIRC, they had forged cranks in all of them ...


When I was a machinist, flat head Fords were the toughest to machine iron of any. Never resurfaced a Hudson head, but if they put up more of fight than the Ford iron, I'm glad I never saw one.

The flat head Chrysler 6 I had experience with was in my grandfather's 1936 Chris Craft racing runabout. Triple updraft carbed, he ran it until 1975. Possibly reringed once, but maybe not.

The Ford flattie I got to know was the 8BA Ford in my 1949 Merc I lovingly built when I worked at a machine shop.


Hudson blocks and heads make Fords feel like childs play. They will give sharp carbide cutters a real work-out ... NEVER get a Hudson machined by a shop that is not known for doing quality Hudson work... They will kill your engine - guaranteed
frown.gif


Lotta folks learned how to work on Henry's iron. Tough yes, but workable with ordinary machine tools. In 100,000 miles there would always be 1/2 again more taper in a Ford block, than any Hudson - even run as second used beater car with cheap oil. Six cylinder with four mains was not a recipe for durability at high RPM, but flatties don't want to wind... They may torque you coming out of a corner, but they won't run down the straights like a SBC. Never would...

But they can run a l-o-n-g time if taken care of
smile.gif


These are almost all long rod long stroke motors. They make a different kind of power from over square short stroke engines. They usually make real good power below 3,500 and plenty of TQ just off idle
smile.gif
 
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Don't know if it has been mentioned but another interesting engine was the Packard flathead 8. My brother-in-law had one. One of their claims to fame was how smooth they ran. Back then our Canadian nickels were 6 sided or 8 sided, I forget but with that engine running you could actually set a nickel on edge on top of the head and it wouldn't fall over.
 
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