What oil for a 60's Briggs
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strait 30
I run that in my 1966 briggs snowblower and it still runs great..My dad got that in 1966
I run that in my 1966 briggs snowblower and it still runs great..My dad got that in 1966
GC would be the best. It is Castrol Syntec 0w30 . It Must say "European Formula" on the front of the black bottle and somewhere near the bar code on the back it will say "Made in Germany". You can only get it at Pep-Boys and AutoZone. This is one of the few real synthetic oils still being produced. It has enough ZDDP and is a very robust oil that holds up against the demands of air cooled engines without oil filters, and pumps. You should still change the oil very often. Every 24 hours of operation would be best, but this oil is so good some push it to 36 or even 48 hours. I read one post wher someone uses it in a generator and put 250 hours on three oil changes using GC.
One of the nice things about GC is it is good from -40 F and still works great on hot summer days. One of the problems with a generator is you do not know what the ambient will be when it is used when you put it away.
A lower cost oil that you should chage every 24 hours would be Shell Rotella that you get at Wall Mart.
One of the nice things about GC is it is good from -40 F and still works great on hot summer days. One of the problems with a generator is you do not know what the ambient will be when it is used when you put it away.
A lower cost oil that you should chage every 24 hours would be Shell Rotella that you get at Wall Mart.
One of the few places I would suggest genuine Briggs and Stratton oil, either 5w30 or straight 30. They don't need to meet any emissions requirements with their oil, so they don't. It's still got plenty of ZDDP and other stuff.
good point secondmonkey i have never thought of that
I'd avoid anything thinner than straight 30. This includes any x-30 oil.
Remember, those engines specified straight viscosity oils for a valid reason, related to oil temperature. A 5w30 is really a 5 viscosity oil that performs like a 30 at 212 degrees F. What air cooled engine operators always forget is the actual oil temp in the air cooled engine is not well controlled. It's not unusual to see 260 degrees F. 300 degrees F is not out of the question under severe conditions. Just how well do you think the 5 viscosity oil is going to hold up?
I've posted on this subject many times. The hurricane generator use here in South Florida really showcases poor oil choices.
Mobil 1 15W-50 is one of the best choices for air cooled engines. Sufficient viscosity, plenty of ZDDP, and excellent high temperature viscosity retention. No, it's not "too thick".
Remember, those engines specified straight viscosity oils for a valid reason, related to oil temperature. A 5w30 is really a 5 viscosity oil that performs like a 30 at 212 degrees F. What air cooled engine operators always forget is the actual oil temp in the air cooled engine is not well controlled. It's not unusual to see 260 degrees F. 300 degrees F is not out of the question under severe conditions. Just how well do you think the 5 viscosity oil is going to hold up?
I've posted on this subject many times. The hurricane generator use here in South Florida really showcases poor oil choices.
Mobil 1 15W-50 is one of the best choices for air cooled engines. Sufficient viscosity, plenty of ZDDP, and excellent high temperature viscosity retention. No, it's not "too thick".
NY gets much colder than Florida.
While I would not run 5w30 in a generator, or any XW 30 in hot weather, other than GC. GC is an exception, it is rated 0w30 but is closer to a 40.
GC is a true synthetic, and has good hot weather performance. If you have to pick only one oil, I would go with GC. It is the oil I use in my generator when I store it and have no idea if it will be used for supplying power to the whole house AC on a 100F day when the power goes out because of grid over-load, or due to a winter storm.
I would not run 15W 50 in the winter. Sure it is a great oil in hot weather. But the 40C viscosity is 125 for Mobil 1 15W 50, vs 54 for GC at 40C. Mobil 1 15W 50 it more than twice as thick at 40C, even if it does have a -45C pour point.
If you have the ability to chose oil with respect to season Mobil 1 15W 50 probably is a better hot ambient oil. And GC would be a better cold weather oil. If you are going to go with only one oil in NY, or in my case Pittsburgh PA I would, and do use GC.
I will admit that so far I have been lucky and have not had to use my Coleman generator with the 10 HP Tecumseh for a real outage yet. However, I have spent many hours on this site and others researching oil for this generator and the bottom line is that the best choice for a generator in my region is GC.
I really do not think any generator would survive a cold start with Mobil 1 15W 50 at ambient of 10F or some of the colder temperatures we see around here, coldest -22F. I would have no hesitation about using GC at any ambient from -22F to +100F or even more. I would include a box fan to add ventilation in the same direction that the generators cooling fan pushes it if the ambient were above 80F. This would blow in somewhat from the side to aid the cooling of the electric part of the generator, more than fore the engine.
While I would not run 5w30 in a generator, or any XW 30 in hot weather, other than GC. GC is an exception, it is rated 0w30 but is closer to a 40.
GC is a true synthetic, and has good hot weather performance. If you have to pick only one oil, I would go with GC. It is the oil I use in my generator when I store it and have no idea if it will be used for supplying power to the whole house AC on a 100F day when the power goes out because of grid over-load, or due to a winter storm.
I would not run 15W 50 in the winter. Sure it is a great oil in hot weather. But the 40C viscosity is 125 for Mobil 1 15W 50, vs 54 for GC at 40C. Mobil 1 15W 50 it more than twice as thick at 40C, even if it does have a -45C pour point.
If you have the ability to chose oil with respect to season Mobil 1 15W 50 probably is a better hot ambient oil. And GC would be a better cold weather oil. If you are going to go with only one oil in NY, or in my case Pittsburgh PA I would, and do use GC.
I will admit that so far I have been lucky and have not had to use my Coleman generator with the 10 HP Tecumseh for a real outage yet. However, I have spent many hours on this site and others researching oil for this generator and the bottom line is that the best choice for a generator in my region is GC.
I really do not think any generator would survive a cold start with Mobil 1 15W 50 at ambient of 10F or some of the colder temperatures we see around here, coldest -22F. I would have no hesitation about using GC at any ambient from -22F to +100F or even more. I would include a box fan to add ventilation in the same direction that the generators cooling fan pushes it if the ambient were above 80F. This would blow in somewhat from the side to aid the cooling of the electric part of the generator, more than fore the engine.
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The numbers I quoted for both oils Mobil 1 15W 50, and GC were from AE HAAS Motor Oil site. The following is from the Mobil 1 web site for the Mobil 1 15W 50.:
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 15W-50
SAE Grade 15W-50
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 131.2
cSt @ 100º C 18.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 154
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.21
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 4.50
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -39
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 235
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.87
None of these show what the cSt would be at cold ambient. But I have read about air cooled engines throwing rods when too thick of an oil is used in cold conditions. This is why I would not use this oil in winter conditions.
Specifications and Approvals
Mobil 1 15W-50 meets or exceeds the following industry specifications:
API SM,SL,SJ,EC,CF
Typical Properties
Mobil 1 15W-50
SAE Grade 15W-50
Viscosity, ASTM D 445
cSt @ 40º C 131.2
cSt @ 100º C 18.1
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 154
Sulfated Ash, wt%, ASTM D 874 1.21
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC ASTM D 4683 4.50
Pour Point, ºC, ASTM D 97 -39
Flash Point, ºC, ASTM D 92 235
Density @15º C kg/l, ASTM D 4052 0.87
None of these show what the cSt would be at cold ambient. But I have read about air cooled engines throwing rods when too thick of an oil is used in cold conditions. This is why I would not use this oil in winter conditions.
The following is from a website called "SmokStack Tecumseh H60 broken rod":
My son had changed the oil, as a favor, and I had used the machine several times, after the change. The only difference was, it was -15 degrees F out, and all the other times it was about +35 F or more, when I had used it. I started the engine, as usual, and let it idle, to allow the oil to warm up, befor putting a load on it. My wife had called me inside, to answer an emergency call, and when I returned outside I was just in time to hear SQUEEK-SQUEEK-SQUEEK-SNAP-CLUNK, and then dead silence. I immediately knew the engine broke the rod, and looked behind the starter. I got lucky - no cracks (thankfully, ther engine was just idling! I pulled the oil stick, and the engine read full oil. I re checked it, the sump was full. I took the engine into the shop, pulled it off the machine, and then removed the engine sump I had forgotten to remove the oil! As thwe sump came off, the oil appeared to be as thick as gear oil. The block interior was nearly dry, and the rod had snapped cleanly off at its thinnest point - about 1 inch from the crank journal. The rod journal itself had broken in two, and had fallen into the oil, in the sump, and the piston had stopped 1/2 way up the bore. There was just a bit of transfer onto the crank, and it was cleaned off in a hurry. Luckily for me, I had a spare rod for the engine, and it was installed in short order. I had the engine back on and running in less than 2 hours! I later found out that my son had put SAE 40 oil in the engine, instead of the 10w30 I had asked him to put in. Thank heaven I was not running the engine hard, when it blew. The SAE 40 looked like honey when it was at the 15 below temp. At that low temp, the oil did not splash, therefore the engine starved for oil, just as if the case was empty. Now, if it gets below 0 F, I use my jacobsen 2 cycle mackines to blow off the drive. (No heavy oil worries, no matter what the temperature is!
Andrew
While this was a straight weight 40 oil it does point out what will happen if the temperature is too cold for the oil. I do not know for sure at what temperature this would happen with Mobil 1 15W 50, but I would not be surprised if a engine were damaged in cold ambient with any 15W 50 even if it is Mobil 1 full synthetic.
My son had changed the oil, as a favor, and I had used the machine several times, after the change. The only difference was, it was -15 degrees F out, and all the other times it was about +35 F or more, when I had used it. I started the engine, as usual, and let it idle, to allow the oil to warm up, befor putting a load on it. My wife had called me inside, to answer an emergency call, and when I returned outside I was just in time to hear SQUEEK-SQUEEK-SQUEEK-SNAP-CLUNK, and then dead silence. I immediately knew the engine broke the rod, and looked behind the starter. I got lucky - no cracks (thankfully, ther engine was just idling! I pulled the oil stick, and the engine read full oil. I re checked it, the sump was full. I took the engine into the shop, pulled it off the machine, and then removed the engine sump I had forgotten to remove the oil! As thwe sump came off, the oil appeared to be as thick as gear oil. The block interior was nearly dry, and the rod had snapped cleanly off at its thinnest point - about 1 inch from the crank journal. The rod journal itself had broken in two, and had fallen into the oil, in the sump, and the piston had stopped 1/2 way up the bore. There was just a bit of transfer onto the crank, and it was cleaned off in a hurry. Luckily for me, I had a spare rod for the engine, and it was installed in short order. I had the engine back on and running in less than 2 hours! I later found out that my son had put SAE 40 oil in the engine, instead of the 10w30 I had asked him to put in. Thank heaven I was not running the engine hard, when it blew. The SAE 40 looked like honey when it was at the 15 below temp. At that low temp, the oil did not splash, therefore the engine starved for oil, just as if the case was empty. Now, if it gets below 0 F, I use my jacobsen 2 cycle mackines to blow off the drive. (No heavy oil worries, no matter what the temperature is!
Andrew
While this was a straight weight 40 oil it does point out what will happen if the temperature is too cold for the oil. I do not know for sure at what temperature this would happen with Mobil 1 15W 50, but I would not be surprised if a engine were damaged in cold ambient with any 15W 50 even if it is Mobil 1 full synthetic.
Yes, the 15-50 is a great choice for Florida. It simply does not get cold here. We saw below freezing a couple of nights so far. Not exactly harsh conditions.
However, the 15-50 M1 does do quite well down to about 0F. Any colder than that and it's quite viscous. We use it in race cars and cold starts are never a problem (even in Canada).
One cannot compare 40 viscosity mineral oil and 15 viscosity synthetic. The cold weather performance of the syn is far better.
However, the 15-50 M1 does do quite well down to about 0F. Any colder than that and it's quite viscous. We use it in race cars and cold starts are never a problem (even in Canada).
One cannot compare 40 viscosity mineral oil and 15 viscosity synthetic. The cold weather performance of the syn is far better.
To posty:
BTW are you aware that these generators run at 3600 RPMs regardless of load. Most of these air cooled engines have NO oil pump, and NO oil filter, (though there is an add on option, few have it). They are very hard on shearing the oil causing it to break down and loose its ability to protect. There are few oils that hold up in this application. Also the older oils that had enough ZDDP for these engines had a SL in-between the double doughnut on the back of the bottle. The modern oils that have SM rating do not have enough ZDDP for these older air cooled engines. Manuals for these engines for generators suggest changing the oil every 25 hours of operation. A service teck I talked to said every 30 hours is ok with a good oil.
So keep track of the number of hours you put on an oil, And change it often.
There is also something to be said about preventing the carb from getting gummed up, and using fuel stabilizers such as Sta-Bil.
If you can, take apart the end of the electric part of the generator and lube up the bearings with Kendall red wheel bearing grease. This is real important, because this grease dries up with age and this bearing is what goes bad. It can and often does wreck the bearing housing when it goes.
Also these engines lean out and burn out the cylinder when the air filter is dirty. A cleanable K&N air filter and the cleaning and oiling kit are a good idea. An extra fuel filter inline between the tank and carb is also good.
BTW are you aware that these generators run at 3600 RPMs regardless of load. Most of these air cooled engines have NO oil pump, and NO oil filter, (though there is an add on option, few have it). They are very hard on shearing the oil causing it to break down and loose its ability to protect. There are few oils that hold up in this application. Also the older oils that had enough ZDDP for these engines had a SL in-between the double doughnut on the back of the bottle. The modern oils that have SM rating do not have enough ZDDP for these older air cooled engines. Manuals for these engines for generators suggest changing the oil every 25 hours of operation. A service teck I talked to said every 30 hours is ok with a good oil.
So keep track of the number of hours you put on an oil, And change it often.
There is also something to be said about preventing the carb from getting gummed up, and using fuel stabilizers such as Sta-Bil.
If you can, take apart the end of the electric part of the generator and lube up the bearings with Kendall red wheel bearing grease. This is real important, because this grease dries up with age and this bearing is what goes bad. It can and often does wreck the bearing housing when it goes.
Also these engines lean out and burn out the cylinder when the air filter is dirty. A cleanable K&N air filter and the cleaning and oiling kit are a good idea. An extra fuel filter inline between the tank and carb is also good.
I have a couple older engines from B&S from the era you mention.
The OEM recommendation was Mobil 20 weight for temps above freezing. I run Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 or another good synthetic 5W-40 HDEO changed at 25 hour intervals or seasonally, whichever comes first, as per the factory OCI recommendation. When you start getting into 50 weights the thickness of the oil may impede heat dissipation, when working down into the 20s you start to see oil burning.
The OEM recommendation was Mobil 20 weight for temps above freezing. I run Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 or another good synthetic 5W-40 HDEO changed at 25 hour intervals or seasonally, whichever comes first, as per the factory OCI recommendation. When you start getting into 50 weights the thickness of the oil may impede heat dissipation, when working down into the 20s you start to see oil burning.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
I have a couple older engines from B&S from the era you mention.
The OEM recommendation was Mobil 20 weight for temps above freezing.
No, it wasn't. Plain old 30W oil has been Brigg's recommendation for as long as they've been making engines. They have never endorsed a particular brand of oil besides their own. Maybe the machine your engine is attached to called for Mobil 20w, but Briggs and Stratton did not.
(I collect and restore antique Briggs engines and have a Briggs MST certification)
I have a couple older engines from B&S from the era you mention.
The OEM recommendation was Mobil 20 weight for temps above freezing.
No, it wasn't. Plain old 30W oil has been Brigg's recommendation for as long as they've been making engines. They have never endorsed a particular brand of oil besides their own. Maybe the machine your engine is attached to called for Mobil 20w, but Briggs and Stratton did not.
(I collect and restore antique Briggs engines and have a Briggs MST certification)
No, you're wrong. Please take a look at this image taken from a scan of the Briggs 6B-HS Model Engine:
Might take a look a this one too, from the 5S model, one of the most common collectible briggs engines:
These manuals are available for free download at the Briggs and Stratton Website, if you're interested in checking them out.
Follow this link to the Antique Operator Manuals at B&S:
http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3848
I wouldn't post something on here about oil unless I knew what I was talking about.
Might take a look a this one too, from the 5S model, one of the most common collectible briggs engines:
These manuals are available for free download at the Briggs and Stratton Website, if you're interested in checking them out.
Follow this link to the Antique Operator Manuals at B&S:
http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3848
I wouldn't post something on here about oil unless I knew what I was talking about.
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
No, you're wrong. Please take a look at this image taken from a scan of the Briggs 6B-HS Model Engine:
Might take a look a this one too, from the 5S model, one of the most common collectible briggs engines:
These manuals are available for free download at the Briggs and Stratton Website, if you're interested in checking them out.
Follow this link to the Antique Operator Manuals at B&S:
http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3848
I wouldn't post something on here about oil unless I knew what I was talking about.
Those are NOT engines from the 60s!
No, you're wrong. Please take a look at this image taken from a scan of the Briggs 6B-HS Model Engine:
Might take a look a this one too, from the 5S model, one of the most common collectible briggs engines:
These manuals are available for free download at the Briggs and Stratton Website, if you're interested in checking them out.
Follow this link to the Antique Operator Manuals at B&S:
http://engines.myfaqcenter.com/Answer.aspx?p_faqid=3848
I wouldn't post something on here about oil unless I knew what I was talking about.
Those are NOT engines from the 60s!
From the B&S website www,briggsandstratton.com
Category:
Maintenance
Print AnswerEmail AnswerOil recommendations
What are the oil recommendations (type)?
For information regarding the oil capacity for your engine, please visit our Oil Capacity FAQ.
Oil Recommendation
•SAE 30 40°F and higher (5°C and higher) is good for all purpose use above 40°F, use below 40°F will cause hard starting.
•10W-30 0 to 100 °F (-18 to 38 °C) is better for varying temperature conditions. This grade of oil improves cold weather starting, but may increase oil consumption at 80°F(27°C) or higher.
•Synthetic 5w30 -20 to 120 °F (-30 to 40 °C) provides the best protection at all temperatures as well as improved starting with less oil consumption.
•5w30 40 °F and below (5 °C and below) is recommended for winter use, and works best in cold conditions.
Type of oil to use
•Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
•Do not use special additives.
•Choose a viscosity according to the table above.
For your convenience, Do-It-Yourself parts and products, such as Briggs & Stratton Lawnmower Oil, can be purchased through the Maintenance Parts section of our website.
To view the most current information on oil type, please view/print your engine Operator's Manual online.
Engine Break-in procedures for both Synthetic and standard oil remain the same.
Please read and abide by any applicable Safety Information contained in your engine Operator's Manual. The material provided above is not intended to replace work performed by a Briggs & Stratton Authorized Dealer. Terms and Conditions apply to all of the information presented on this website. Always be sure to completely read and understand your engine Operator's Manual.
Also note that there is a nice chart regarding oils and use temperatures. That did not transfer when I saved and reprinted the above information. Go to the B&S site to see it.
This is the current web site. not something from the 60's?
Category:
Maintenance
Print AnswerEmail AnswerOil recommendations
What are the oil recommendations (type)?
For information regarding the oil capacity for your engine, please visit our Oil Capacity FAQ.
Oil Recommendation
•SAE 30 40°F and higher (5°C and higher) is good for all purpose use above 40°F, use below 40°F will cause hard starting.
•10W-30 0 to 100 °F (-18 to 38 °C) is better for varying temperature conditions. This grade of oil improves cold weather starting, but may increase oil consumption at 80°F(27°C) or higher.
•Synthetic 5w30 -20 to 120 °F (-30 to 40 °C) provides the best protection at all temperatures as well as improved starting with less oil consumption.
•5w30 40 °F and below (5 °C and below) is recommended for winter use, and works best in cold conditions.
Type of oil to use
•Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
•Do not use special additives.
•Choose a viscosity according to the table above.
For your convenience, Do-It-Yourself parts and products, such as Briggs & Stratton Lawnmower Oil, can be purchased through the Maintenance Parts section of our website.
To view the most current information on oil type, please view/print your engine Operator's Manual online.
Engine Break-in procedures for both Synthetic and standard oil remain the same.
Please read and abide by any applicable Safety Information contained in your engine Operator's Manual. The material provided above is not intended to replace work performed by a Briggs & Stratton Authorized Dealer. Terms and Conditions apply to all of the information presented on this website. Always be sure to completely read and understand your engine Operator's Manual.
Also note that there is a nice chart regarding oils and use temperatures. That did not transfer when I saved and reprinted the above information. Go to the B&S site to see it.
This is the current web site. not something from the 60's?
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I'm sorry. Maybe we misunderstand each other.
You said:
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
No, it wasn't. Plain old 30W oil has been Brigg's recommendation for as long as they've been making engines. They have never endorsed a particular brand of oil besides their own.
And I proved you wrong.
Now, I said I had engines from the era mentioned. The engines I have are a '54 and a '56 and the manuals I used here are for those engines. So you're correct that they aren't from the 60s but they are from that era. However, the design of the 6-HS (their first aluminum block engine, as you know) was and in fact still is used with unbelievably little internal variation up through the 1960s to this very day. It's practically no different from what you find if you look at the cheap push mowers in wal-mart, except for the carburetor. So I think the point stands.
You said:
Originally Posted By: SecondMonkey
No, it wasn't. Plain old 30W oil has been Brigg's recommendation for as long as they've been making engines. They have never endorsed a particular brand of oil besides their own.
And I proved you wrong.
Now, I said I had engines from the era mentioned. The engines I have are a '54 and a '56 and the manuals I used here are for those engines. So you're correct that they aren't from the 60s but they are from that era. However, the design of the 6-HS (their first aluminum block engine, as you know) was and in fact still is used with unbelievably little internal variation up through the 1960s to this very day. It's practically no different from what you find if you look at the cheap push mowers in wal-mart, except for the carburetor. So I think the point stands.
After going back and taking a look more carefully through the archives, it seems that engines that were made after the mid sixties did recommend an API MS 30 weight for a summertime oil, but recommended a 5W-20, 20W-20 or even a 10W for temps below 40F. The engines that bridged the 50s and 60s retained their 20W summer/ 10W winter recommendation.
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