What is the proper application for 15w-50 Mobil 1?

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doug Hillary:
Hi,
in this country M1 5w-50 is probably still the most popular selling synthetic engine oil and
Castrol's R synthetic 10w-60 would be in the top three sellers here too

No CAFE here( except Coffee sellers ) and no cars running around the place with smoke trails

We probably have the best choice of synthetic engine oils available here after Europe - from 0w-20 FUCHS to Motul, Repsol to Penrite as a 25w-70 and etc!!!!

Our engine makers export everywhere even to NA and Europe so we have a little knowledge too

This country experiences ambient temperatures from about -15C to about 50C

Regards

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Good point Doug:

Since you don't have this bloated government agency dictating what you can do to your tailpipe, or how much MPG it should get, you tend to run oils that maximize engine life.

Your ambient temps also tend to demand this. I wonder if Honda or Ford recommends a 5W-20 in the Outback of Australia?

Here in Canada, up until 1988 or so, you could get both Toyota Landcruiser models with their diesel motor. That motor seemed to last forever. I think you can still get the Toyota diesel in Austrailia.

Here we're stuck with a gas-guzzling and wimpy gasoline motor. All because the Powers That Be have determined there is something Very Bad about LD diesel motors.

I think the only reason my 1984 Ford F-150 has gone 528,000km is that I used Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 from new.

 

[therion]

I just found out the previous owner of my van used Mobil 1 5W-50 in the summertime when it was used. It is a 351 C.I.D. or 5.8L V8.

 

[Grossomotto]

hey heyjay,

I'm originally from Detroit and moved to AZ in the 90's. I have no idea how my parent's Ford Pinto and Granada made it through so many winters of subzero weather!

I'll soon run Delvac 1 5W40 in both V6 Toyota Trucks since all we do is stop-and-go around town here in the desert.

Thanks for all the informative posts. You should put them together in a book!

 

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grossomotto:
hey heyjay,

I'm originally from Detroit and moved to AZ in the 90's. I have no idea how my parent's Ford Pinto and Granada made it through so many winters of subzero weather!

I'll soon run Delvac 1 5W40 in both V6 Toyota Trucks since all we do is stop-and-go around town here in the desert.

Thanks for all the informative posts. You should put them together in a book!

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I bet they made it through wintertime the same way folks around here do:

Say a little Prayer before stiffly turning the key to Start.

I used Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 year round in my new 1990 Toyota 4Runner with 3.0 V6: a hard working and underpowered motor.

When I moved to Salt Lake City to get my degree at the U, I ran Mobil 1 15W-50 year round (Coldest temps in SLC +4 F). With either oil I used 1 quart per 7,800 miles, on average.

I had excellent results with both oils. IMHO Delvac 1 5W-40 has a superior additive package, though it's more $$$. If you extend the oil change interval, it should balance out. If you can't find Delvac 1, don't be afraid to use 15W-50 in your ambient climate.

FWIW: the Toyota Shop Manual for my 4Runner recommended 5w30 up to 60 F, 10w30 up to 90 F. You could use a 20W-50 from 40 F past the top of the chart, a 15W-50 from 30 F past the top band. Since Mobil 1 15W-50 has a BPT of -35 F, I felt safe using it year-round in Utah.

Thank you for the kind remarks. Though I shouldn't have to write a book: I'm basically a parrot who repeats everything he has read from other books, and I've been lucky enough to pick good books and correctly apply the knowledge. I highly recommend the Esso Lubricant Products Handbook.

Jerry

 

[JohnBrowning]

My family and I have used 15W50 M1 in almost everything we have owned. Winter 10W30 if bellow 40F and all other times 15W50. I have had great results with this combination. My Mom and Dad still use this combonation!

Most of TOyota's engines even into the early 1990's still had the old school oil chart that allowed you to choose from 5W30 to 20W50++ depending on conditions.

I have not proven this theory yet because I am testing Redline 5W40. My theory is that M1 15W50 combined with 2-3 onces of Lube COntrol per-quart and 1 once per-quart every 1000 miles could be the ultimate M1 oil combination for summer use!

We need someone that has consistently demonstrated consistent UOA results with a given engine. It does not have to be an engine that produces trophy UOA so long as it is consistent. It would be interesting to see how a LS1 behaved on this mix. It would also be interesting to see how a small toyota 4 cylinder behaved on it as well!

The 15W50 has the most agressive additive package of the entire line. I think that this oil would benifit from additional solvency provided by lube control.

Their are alot of aplications that allow for the use of a 50Wt oil or heavier once you leave North America!! In Austriala(sp) they have 25W70!! BMW has 10W60!!

 

[sprintman]

25W70 is for girls. Real men use 40W70 (Penrite HPR50). Now to the serious part. Heyjay you say turbo should use mPa 4 minimum on earlier post. I currently use BP Visco 5000 5W40 13.95 cSt @ 100C A3/B3 but HTHS isn't 4. Can you suggest any?

 

[hungdynasty]

I have a 95 BMW 740i and I use Mobil1 15W50 in Hong Kong. You may go to the following link to see my manual's oil chart.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169203

 

[02PSD4ME]

I used Mobil 1, 15w50 in my '91 Toyota 4x4, with a 22RE engine (4 cyl.) I changed the oil/filter every 10-12K miles. Truck had 387,000 miles on it when I sold it, it was still running like NEW.

I also use it in my '01 Harley (FLHT)

[ January 21, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: 02PSD4ME ]

 

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
25W70 is for girls. Real men use 40W70 (Penrite HPR50). Now to the serious part. Heyjay you say turbo should use mPa 4 minimum on earlier post. I currently use BP Visco 5000 5W40 13.95 cSt @ 100C A3/B3 but HTHS isn't 4. Can you suggest any?

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The HD Cummins I use in my commercial equipment used to have this specification. That's why they recommended a 15w40, Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 is a borderline HTHS 4.0 mPa s @ 150 C.

Mobil 1 15W-50 has a HTHS of 5.11 mPa s @ 150 C. I believe you can get their 5W-50 oil in Austrailia, or Mobil 1 Diesel in 5W-50 or 15W-50?

For your application, a motor oil with a rated HTHS of 3.5-3.9 mPa s @ 150 C may be appropriate.

I have "motor oil envy" as Austraila appears to have a MUCH better selection of oils than we do in North America.

Jerry

 

[mark pruett]

quote:

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Originally posted by heyjay:

Your ambient temps also tend to demand this. I wonder if Honda or Ford recommends a 5W-20 in the Outback of Australia?

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Let's not get too carried away... as far as I can tell by looking at meteorological sites, places like Alice Springs are no hotter on average than say... Dallas, Texas. (go to weather.com and look).

Yet US manufacturers have specified 30 weights of various types for decades, and there hasn't been any big epidemic of engine failures in Texas as a result- if anything, they'd be more stressed down here because of the A/C adding to the underhood temps.

Thinner oils do lubricate better- nobody's arguing that as far as I know. So if they lubricate better, how are they failing to protect your engine? I don't quite fathom that particular bit of logic. Seems to me that if I'm getting better lubrication with thinner oil, then that's what's best for my engine.

I think that the 5w-20 specifications are a combination of oil technology allowing for the right specs to be met in terms of performance, and that they also happen to work for CAFE standards. Kind of a win-win situation.

I'm sure there were old-farts grumbling about 10w30 when it came out, and yet now we think of 10w30 as on the thick end of commonly used oils in the US.-

 

[heyjay]

I'm not getting "carried away." What I find curious is that North America appears to have one "standard" and the rest of the world appears to have another "standard."

In many cases, there is a clear conflict between the API/SAE "starburst" certification here and the European ACEA specs. These conflicts appear to center on "extended oil change intervals" and the long-term sludge/varnish test.

For example: the ACEA test is run up to 250 hours at WOT and heavy load. The oil can't thicken more than 50%, maximum 15% volitility, and the test engineer can NOT add make-up oil during the test. No stuck rings allowed, minimal varnish, etc.

The SAE J300 is FAR more lenient: tests are stopped at 60-80 hours, oil is allowed to thicken 275% (Used to be MUCH more, like 375%), can be 25% volitile, and the test engineer is allowed to add 6.5 liters during the test run. No mention of sludge but you are allowed stuck rings.

There is also a conflict on minimum HTHS and kinematic viscosity at 100 C. Here a lighter kinematic is prefered and in Europe a lot of makers prefer a somewhat heavier kinematic and HTHS.

For example, factory fill on high-end Mercedes Benz and BMW cars is a 0W-40, and in "extended high speed high temperature conditions" an xW-50 is recommended and/or preferred.

Some engines also appear to be designed with a specific grade or HTHS in mind. When you examine all the VW 500.x, 502.x, 503.x, 505.x, and 506.x specifications, the grades cover 15w40, 5W-40, 0W-30, etc. Some are Dino some are synthetics.

Some European motors appear to be changing. In particular, the new PD (Pumpe Duse) turbodiesel and some 4 cylinder gasoline motors require a VW 506.x spec in 0W-30, such as Castrol SLX LongLife II 0W-30: 24 month or 50,000km oil change intervals.

Since there is no Magnassun/Moss Warranty Act in Europe, the engine maker is allowed to dictate standards. They seem to recognize that different oils will perform differently, and both the ACEA specs and individual car specs appear to support this.

Here in North America, the API/SAE appear to be telling the average guillable public that their "Starburst" certification at least implies that ALL oils are the same. That $0.49 / quart "low bidder" 5w30 is JUST AS GOOD as the $5.00 / quart synthetic.

After all, they "meet" the same "standard."

Our driving cycle is also much more forgiving. How long would an American car last WOT with a cheap "low bidder" oil? True, stop-n-go in Ft Worth or Phoenix in summer with the A/C at Max is brutal, but that's an entirely different environment than WOT.

Doug Hillary makes frequent posts regarding the oils used in Australia, and with recorded ambient temps MUCH higher than anything we have, they have to worry about the high end of the scale.

All other things being equal, a thinner kinematic will give "slightly" more HP (Less drag) and "slightly" more MPG. Drag racers run a VERY light oil, but the motor only has to survive the pass.

BTW: The Weather Channel "average" or "mean" temp is a worthless number. Example: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1,000,000. My Mean is about 166,000 and my Median is 1. Which value has more meaning? The one that takes a sum or "sigma value" or the one that occurs most often? BYU's law school got embarassed a few years back when they tried to claim the highest "average" salary: turns out one of their grads was a very well paid football jock.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
yes you are correct "old farts" like me did complain about 10w30 when it first came out - about 1953-4. Nearly 50 years ago!!
We had been educated on 20w, 30, 40 mono oils!

I have a copy of "WHEELS Magazine of Motoring" dated May 1953 in front of me
It has an advertisement outlining Mobil's new "Mobiloil" that listed the following causes of engine wear;
friction 51%
abrasion 39%
corrosion 10%
It had "300% increase in Super-Detergent additives" to combat these!

Mobiloil Special at release was a 10w30 and
it did not to too well. Over advertising and poor bed-in techniques resulted in all sorts of problems then and for a few more years laters as well

Castrol introduced 20w-50 for the new MINI - in 1959! No worries about the 20w-50 oil as they just leaked or used it in any form. I had much to do with refining the export protoypes!!

Australia is certainly very similar to parts of NA and we have large variances in climate too. But not like there in your fine Country
However to get to Alice Springs you have about travel about 950 miles from any direction - in somewhat remote country - the Outback. From Darwin to Alice Springs there are no speed limits. I would hate to drive there at 130+mph, in 50C temperatures with 0w-20 in my BMW Z3 2.8!
Or in anything else for that matter. In Alice' the following day it may be -5C however when you wake up! This is one reason for the "all year round oil" mentality here - one day bl**dy hot and the next "bl**dy" cold

Incidently 650hp Road Trains at 240000lbs do this trip on 15w40 oils ( or on Delvac 1 5w-40 )and at 70+ mph too!

I expect most people here want and use an "all year round oil" exactly what those new fangled multigrade oils were released for in 1953+
In Australia and for many that "all year round oil" choice is wisely Mobil's M1 5w-50 ( no M1 15w-50 here )

This is perhaps the perfect all year round oil in our extremes -15C to 50C as mentioned earlier
And MOST Australians would have experienced temperatures near or beyond 40C at some point - very few would have rubbed their hands at -15C

Many new cars sold here still list oils in that viscosity range for use according to our climate's limits

I have a MY02 2.6ltr petrol Mazda Ute ( light truck ) it operates from -5C to 40C+ and it is on Shell's Helix Ultra 15w-50 synthetic - all year round. From past experience it will probably last for over 200k miles and with not a dollar spent on the engine

The short answer is as always - consult the car's handbook and use an oil that conforms with the climate extremes you encounter. A good all year round oil for your car could well be Mobil's M1 15w-50

I use Delvac 1 in my private cars ( -5C to 45C )

Regards

 

[sprintman]

Doug/Heyjay Mobil 15W50 is now available here and currently there are 26 x 20-litre drums available as of 5 mins ago (bet my Mobil disty won't believe that). Accotrding to Mobil tech line it should be cheaper than Delvac 1. 5.11 mPa should be good enough for my old turbo engine?

 

[porterdog]

quote:

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Originally posted by heyjay:
For example, the MRV BPT of Mobil 1 15W-50 is about the same as a good dino 5w30, -35 F.

Mobil 1 0W-30, with a rather thin HTHS, has a MRV BPT of -58 F. It was -36 F this morning at my house, so guess which oil I'm using?

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Given this information, how much padding should one allow to insure good pumpability? Alternatively, at what temperature would you consider draining the 15w50 in favor of the 0w30?

 

[buster]

Proper application for a 15w-50/20w-50 is for a losley built high HP car. Oils today are better built and there is no need for them for 99.9% of the cars on the road. I'd only use a 50wt in a Jeep or something like that. I am considering a 50wt for my 1.8L rice burner just to see how it would run. John Browning has made me want to try it.

It will flow in cold weather, but no where near as good as a 0w-30. It's just no needed these days. There is this common misconception that thicker is better but it's just not true in all cases. Some of the absolute best UOAs so far on this website are with Mobil's 0w-20. One was in a V10 towing!!

[ January 21, 2004, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[road_rascal]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Proper application for a 15w-50/20w-50 is for a losley built high HP car. Oils today are better built and there is no need for them for 99.9% of the cars on the road.

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Let's not forget a large percentage of motorcyclists who use the 15w/50 instead of Mobil 1's higher priced 'motorcycle only' oil. I'll do a UOA once I hammer out 1100-1200 miles in 24 hours on this coming June's Minnesota 1000. I should have a good 3-4K on the Mobil 15w/50 that will be in the crankcase.

 

[dagmando]

The 1997 SAAB 9000 Turbo manual states when temps are constantly above 59*(F) use 15W-50/20W-50, but does not specify synthetic or not. Also, change intervals are 7.5 normal, 5K severe.

Also, "Real Men" use Valvoline VR1 SAE70 racing oil in the dead of winter.

[ January 21, 2004, 12:08 PM: Message edited by: dagmando ]

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by dagmando:


Also, "Real Men" use Valvoline VR1 SAE70 racing oil in the dead of winter.

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With a can of STP oil treatment to thicken it up even further!

 

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
Doug/Heyjay Mobil 15W50 is now available here and currently there are 26 x 20-litre drums available as of 5 mins ago (bet my Mobil disty won't believe that). Accotrding to Mobil tech line it should be cheaper than Delvac 1. 5.11 mPa should be good enough for my old turbo engine?

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Here in North America a lot of turbo owners use it and swear by it. I used to have a 1990 Toyota 4Runner (Not sure if you have it in Australia, sort of like a baby Land Cruiser) that I bought new. It ran Delvac 1 5W-40 all the time.

In 1993 I moved to Salt Lake City, Utah, to finish my college degree at the University of Utah. Hard to find Delvac 1, so I ran Mobil 1 15W-50 with excellent results. As you can imagine, cold temp performance was not the huge issue it was in the part of Canada I live in now.

I think it would work very well for a turbo, especially given YOUR extreme climatic conditions (High ambient temps). Doug, any thoughts??

 

[heyjay]

quote:

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Originally posted by porterdog:

quote:

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Originally posted by heyjay:
For example, the MRV BPT of Mobil 1 15W-50 is about the same as a good dino 5w30, -35 F.

Mobil 1 0W-30, with a rather thin HTHS, has a MRV BPT of -58 F. It was -36 F this morning at my house, so guess which oil I'm using?

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Given this information, how much padding should one allow to insure good pumpability? Alternatively, at what temperature would you consider draining the 15w50 in favor of the 0w30?

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Well, "the more the better."

This is a gray area and you have to carefully apply good judgement. For example, some motors are sensitive to MRV values, some motors are sensitive to HTHS ratings (Might have more wear).

The Vortec in my GMC truck appears to be a motor sensitive to MRV values: The oil pump is mounted to the front of the crank, the oil pan is rear sump, and there is a VERY long oil pickup tube.

The owner's manual STRONGLY recommends a synthetic 0w30 or 5w30 at temps colder than -20 F / -30 C. FYI the 0w30 MRV at that temp is around 10,000 cP, versus the "absolute" 60,000 cP limit. What does that say about GM's Vortec oiling system??

Other motors may be just fine at the 60,000 cP pump limit, where the "yield stress" overcomes vacuum from the oil pump and oil ceases to flow. For the 15W-50, that happens at -35 F.

I would suggest NOT using the 15W-50 below 0 F. Detroit can get pretty cold too. If I knew the application, I might make a better guess.

Mobil 1 0w30 and 0W-20 both have similar BPT's of around -58 F, the MRV values trend proportinatly down to BPT. I don't use 0W-20 in winter as I feel the HTHS is far too thin to meet GM specs.

Mobil 1 0W-30, 5w30, and 10w30 meet GM 4718M, which is a tough oil spec for Corvette LS1's. GM has told me an xW-20 is "far too thin at operating temperature."

FWIW: since I'm an Old Fart, I remember here in winter when folks used to run 5W-20 in winter in everything, from passenger car V8's to HD Cummins diesel's in big rigs. Back then we had to trade somewhat higher wear with the 5W-20 to get an oil that would perform reliably in winter. That was before synthetics, especially Delvac 1 5W-40, hit the scene.