What is the life expectancy of an auto trans?

[38sho]

worst domestic transmissions to own:


Chrysler 604 and RWD TF-6 TF-8

Ford CD4E, E4OD, 4r70w, A4LD(and other explorer variants)

Chevy 4t60E, 4l60e, 4l80e

some of these are listed as inherent design flaws where almost all of them break and you need to tear down the entire transmission to fix it.

I would almost include the Ford Ax4N, but MOST of them failing lately is actually due to the splines stripping out that drive the pump shaft inside the torque converter..... The 4r70W is also questionable, in light duty applications they seem to hold up decent, with a couple design flaws that can be fixed with a fluid change and the other problem is fixed with a spring change while dropping the pan. But this transmission can actually be found in heavy duty vans, Im almost certain I've seen E-350's with this transmission, defintely e-250's

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: 38sho
The 4r70W is also questionable, in light duty applications they seem to hold up decent


Most cabs have a 4r70w in them; often they have over 200k on them.


Quote:
with a couple design flaws that can be fixed with a fluid change


Yes, they do require Mercon V. Regular Dexron/Mercon will cause torque converter shudder. As the manufacturer recommended Mercon V for these transmissions, the problems you will encounter using Dexron/Mercon are not the result of a design flaw but of failure to RTFM.

Quote:
and the other problem is fixed with a spring change while dropping the pan.


Resolved after 1997 according to the info I have.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: 38sho
worst domestic transmissions to own:
Chrysler 604 and RWD TF-6 TF-8
Ford CD4E, E4OD, 4r70w, A4LD(and other explorer variants)

Chevy 4t60E, 4l60e, 4l80e


Interesting that in heavy duty fleet use we have NEVER rebuilt any 4L80E's. Our vans weigh over 9500 pounds and work every day. One has 408k miles and some others with 200k+ miles.

 

[ls1mike]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: 38sho
worst domestic transmissions to own:
Chrysler 604 and RWD TF-6 TF-8
Ford CD4E, E4OD, 4r70w, A4LD(and other explorer variants)

Chevy 4t60E, 4l60e, 4l80e


Interesting that in heavy duty fleet use we have NEVER rebuilt any 4L80E's. Our vans weigh over 9500 pounds and work every day. One has 408k miles and some others with 200k+ miles.

I was going to say the 4L80E has proved to very trouble free.

In my time RVin I have yet to talk to to anyone who has replaced or had one rebuilt. I am curious to see how long my will last. My last turbo 400 went 180,000 towing.

 

[01rangerxl]

Quote:
worst domestic transmissions to own:


Chrysler 604 and RWD TF-6 TF-8

Ford CD4E, E4OD, 4r70w, A4LD(and other explorer variants)

Chevy 4t60E, 4l60e, 4l80e



A lot of those are victims of heavy duty applications that push them to their limits. The E4OD was used in a lot of heavy duty applications...not surprising an auto trans might fail in a high mileage F-250 work truck that never had the fluid changed. The A4LD had some issues, but I have seen plenty with well over 200K on them. I have seen its various 4R and 5R predecessors with 300K+ miles on them. I've never even had to take the pan off either one I've owned, they just keep going as long as the fluid is good. The same applies for the 4R70W...a good transmission that is often worked to its limits and not maintained.

The same can be said for the 4L60E and 4L80E. IIRC, some 4L60Es had weak sun shells, but I have seen bunches of them with well over 200K miles. Same for the 80s. Tons of commercial vehicles use these and we all know how those get treated.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: 38sho
worst domestic transmissions to own:


Chrysler 604 and RWD TF-6 TF-8

Ford CD4E, E4OD, 4r70w, A4LD(and other explorer variants)

Chevy 4t60E, 4l60e, 4l80e

some of these are listed as inherent design flaws where almost all of them break and you need to tear down the entire transmission to fix it.

I would almost include the Ford Ax4N, but MOST of them failing lately is actually due to the splines stripping out that drive the pump shaft inside the torque converter..... The 4r70W is also questionable, in light duty applications they seem to hold up decent, with a couple design flaws that can be fixed with a fluid change and the other problem is fixed with a spring change while dropping the pan. But this transmission can actually be found in heavy duty vans, Im almost certain I've seen E-350's with this transmission, defintely e-250's



The 4R70W and E4OD really don't belong on that list for the reasons others have listed.

 

[Nick R]

Was gonna say never heard anything bad about the 4R70W, I mean we had it in he expy and it was fine when we sold it at 73k.

 

[addyguy]

I got 160k out of a 4-speed Cavalier AT recently, and AFAIK, it only had 1 pan drop/filter change/refill at about 140k miles.

It WAS slipping, and shifted hard, but if I had kept the car, I expected it to go 200k, albeit driving it much gentler near the end.

I have to confess, the CD4E in my 2003 Tribute isn't in the best shape - it 'hunts' and slips a bit, and with the history of these trans, I don't know what's in store with it.

When I bought it, the tranny fluid was like new, but it leaked a little bit. I'm pretty sure it was a short-tripped/rarely driven vehicle, so the seals had dried out a bit. Reason I think this is I started driving the vehicle a lot, like I do with my vehicles, and topping off the tranny regularly to the tune of about 1 quart.

After 5 months, the tranny appears to have stopped leaking (touch wood), and seems to generally shift fine. I will keep driving it reasonably, and see how it does going forward.

 

[jay929]

your not always safer driving a manual trans either. i had to get my honda civic manual clutch rebuilt at 160k. 1500 dollars. and the car is drivin on the expressway 90% of the time with amsoil gear oil in it. i don't get it.

 

[Virtuoso]

Originally Posted By: jay929
your not always safer driving a manual trans either. i had to get my honda civic manual clutch rebuilt at 160k. 1500 dollars. and the car is drivin on the expressway 90% of the time with amsoil gear oil in it. i don't get it.


I've never had any auto-trans work done besides fluid exchanges done myself (I'm sure with many more years of driving, that may change); but I've had two clutches replaced.

So far, for me, the automatics have been much cheaper to own. Then again, I had a great time driving those manuals!

 

[SteveSRT8]

And it would seem that a stick is very driver dependent, where an auto is point and shoot.

 

[jay929]

yeah, and i noticed its not cheap to get new clutches on foreign cars. i'm back with an auto, except for my mustang, that must be manual.

 

[FZ1]

No,boys. If you can drive,at all,you should never have to replace a clutch on an MT. I'm hoping to get 150,000 out of my Bass boat towing,heat saturated,02 Accord V6 AT. Plan to trade it in 4-5 years before it fails. Minimized driving and Fingers crossed,now at 115,000.

 

[Virtuoso]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
No,boys. If you can drive,at all,you should never have to replace a clutch on an MT.


I can drive very well, thank you. That did not stop them from wearing out. Same goes for many other clutches on the road..

 

[SteveSRT8]

That's a very general statement that no manual should ever wear out its clutch!

They have facing similar to brake lining that is designed to wear off. They ALL WEAR OUT. The only thing you can do is alter the time/mileage till that occurs.

I have taken a Pontiac GTO with a built 400/4spd to over 175k miles on one clutch and a Vette to over 100k miles with track use. But they all eventually wear out. Period.

 

[CBR.worm]

I had so many auto transmissions fail through the 80's and 90's that I avoided autos until the Tundra, which was still shifting perfectly at 220K miles. I have not yet had to replace a clutch, but do realize that it is a wear item - and an expensive one. My experience was that it was a total gamble. And if a tranny failed, chances were good it would never be the same again.

Samples of my fleet - all of these were bought new.


1985 Dodge Caravan - 4cyl 3 spd auto - bulletproof until it threw a rod on the highway at over 300K miles. Not that there was anything to fail. The carb did leak gas, the valve covers did leak oil, the crank windows were very difficult, The AC belt would fly off if you maintained over ~85mph on the highway (which took a tailwind and a hill)

1985 Aerostar V6 (3.0?) - first tranny redone under warranty by Ford at very low mileage, multiple (Lots of AAMCO) rebuilds and a head gasket to get to 180K also lots of AC problems and oil leaks.

1986 Toyota LE Van. First tranny at 86K, each rebuild lasted less than 10K. That one I blame on Mr. Transmission. one expensive AC problem, a heater hose and a fuse box meltdown, no other problems.

1989 Grand Voyager - 3.0, A604 - strangely tranny lasted until the van was scrapped around either 320 or 380K. Lots of AC problems and power window switches. That one never broke only because I expected it to. Shifted great up until the end.

1991 Aerostar, 4.0V6 AWD auto - pretty reliable. First tranny at 90K, second one at 160K. AC problems - overall not bad. Leaked a lot of oil.

1993 Chevy 1500 conversion van 5.7l V8 Auto (4l60-e?). First tranny 43K, rear end at 60K, second tranny at almost 100K, third tranny at 150K. After that we had a shop put in a 'heavier duty' tranny that is still running today - last time I saw it was over 300K. NO AC Problems! Other than the trannys, pretty reliable.

1997 Maxima SE 5MT. Still towed the same trailer and most of the same gear. O2 sensors at 80K. Starter around 105K

2000 Maxima SE . . . no tranny issues, coilpacks and starter

2000 Tundra V8 4x4, Fan clutch and spider gears around 105K.

2004 Audi A4, first CVT replaced at under 12K, second one going strong when we sold it at ~60K.

2005 Tundra V8 no problems

2006 G35 - very few problems, original clutch so far.



So my experience with Auto's averages out to be almost 100K life expectancy.

All of these vehicles had the same basic life - small to medium trailer towing with decent amount of gear inside. Lots of highway, a fair amount of mountains, a fair amount of abuse, good maintenance including frequent ATF changes with the proper fluids. I think we used M1 in all of them except the '89 Voyager which called for ATF+3.

Jatco supposedly warrants new Nissan/Infiniti trannys for 100,000 shift cycles, that could be a drastically different number of miles depending on city/highway miles.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: Virtuoso
Originally Posted By: FZ1
No,boys. If you can drive,at all,you should never have to replace a clutch on an MT.


I can drive very well, thank you. That did not stop them from wearing out. Same goes for many other clutches on the road..
All evidence to the contrary. Lol.

 

[Virtuoso]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
That's a very general statement that no manual should ever wear out its clutch!


Very.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
All evidence to the contrary. Lol.


Please produce any evidence that backs your assertion. I would be open minded and eager to see it.

 

[FZ1]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: FZ1
All evidence to the contrary. Lol.


Please produce any evidence that backs your assertion. I would be open minded and eager to see it.
Oh! Really! Lol.