Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: moving2
And I'm certain if you go back a little further that you will find that regular passenger vehicles made more right turns than SUVs. Good effort finding data there, Spaz. I've made an equal effort with my statement.
Okay.
Quote:
In 2000, SUVs had the highest rollover involvement rate of any vehicle type in fatal crashes -- 36 percent, as compared with 24 percent for pickups, 19 percent for vans and 15 percent for traffic cars. SUVs also had the highest rollover rate for passenger vehicles in injury crashes -- 12 percent, as compared to 7 percent for pickups, 4 percent for vans and 3 percent for passenger cars.
---
PBS Frontline
Now you're talkin'! So this data shows that, in the year 2000, in a fatal crash, SUVs were about 1.9x more likely to have rolled over vs. cars. It also shows that, in an injury crash, SUVs were about 4x more likely to have rolled over vs. cars. So I guess if we are looking at injury and fatal crashes, your 3x number makes sense. Good guess since I'm assuming you didn't have this data beforehand. Where's your comparison data from today to show that SUVs were so much worse then vs. now?
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Quote:
"Everybody is focusing on the tragic deaths involving Firestone tires. But we are ignoring the elephant in the tent, which is the much broader problem created by sport utility vehicles, and not just the Explorer."
--
Keith Bradsher, former Detroit bureau chief
for The New York Times
Quote:
In the 10-year period during which Ford-Firestone related rollovers caused some 300 deaths, more than 12,000 people -- 40 times as many -- died in SUV rollover crashes unrelated to tire failure
NHTSA study
And vehicle stability control with rollover protection, canopy airbags, and stricter NHTSA and IIHS roof crush tests are working to change this today, which is good news for SUV drivers.
The IIHS has some data on this:
Quote:
"While both cars and SUVs benefit from ESC, the reduction in the risk of single-vehicle crashes was significantly greater for SUVs — 49 percent versus 33 percent for cars. The reduction in fatal single-vehicle crashes wasn't significantly different for SUVs (59 percent) than for cars (53 percent).
Many single-vehicle crashes involve rolling over, and ESC effectiveness in preventing rollovers is even more dramatic. It reduces the risk of fatal single-vehicle rollovers of SUVs by 80 percent, 77 percent for cars.
ESC was found to reduce the risk of all kinds of fatal crashes by 43 percent. This is more than the 34 percent reduction reported in 2004. If all vehicles had ESC, it could prevent as many as 10,000 of the 34,000 fatal passenger vehicle crashes that occur each year."
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
then there's the drivers themselves:
Quote:
SUV safety concerns are affected by a perception among some consumers that SUVs are safer for their drivers than standard cars, and that they need not take basic precautions. According to G. C. Rapaille, [...] Gladwell concluded that when a driver feels unsafe when driving a vehicle, it makes the vehicle safer. When a driver feels safe when driving, the vehicle becomes less safe.
(Gladwell, The New Yorker, 2004)
Gladwell can talk about psychology all he wants- I wonder how he explains the marked difference in fatality rates? And where is his data showing what percentage of SUV drivers fit the profile he describes?
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
So in summary, not only are SUVs more prone to rollovers, they are also tubby Hugo Chavez and OPEC pleasing road toad nightmares with bad drivers.
Well' let's see...
1.
SUV more prone to rollovers? Vehicles with a high center of gravity are more prone to rollovers vs. vehicles with a lower center of gravity? Yes, and probably always will be- can't change the laws of physics and this applies to all vehicles. Minivans are more prone to rollover vs. cars, as well.
2.
SUVs are tubby Hugo Chavez? Generalization, anyone? What percentage of SUV drivers feel this way? Data?
3.
SUVs are OPEC pleasing road toad nightmares? And, by your logic, high performance sports cars, pickups, and minivans are not why?
4.
SUV drivers are bad drivers? Any data to show avg. SUV driver ability vs. regular car driver ability? Overall accident rates of one vs. the other? Or does this just come out of thin air?
So, in summary, you've almost proven your original statement about earlier model SUVs having about 3x the rollover rate vs. passenger cars, but pretty much everything else (see points above) is just hot air.
However, I wonder what you'd say looking at these statistics on overall fatalities:
Especially the trend in fatality rates for both drivers and passengers starting at the year 2000 up until the present. Love em or hate em, can you dispute the advantage SUVs have when it comes to overall fatality rates in SUVs vs. cars?
