We are in Norway

[goblin]

... For regular check ups and such, it's great, but if you need specialized tests and treatment, you need to wait. ...

I don't want to derail the thread, but it's exactly the same in the US. Any specialized doctor that I have to see I have to schedule months in advance. I'm on the East Coast. Maybe it's different elsewhere.
I also doubt that there are no private hospitals in Canada. So you can always get what the US gets.

 

[CKN]

I don't want to derail the thread, but it's exactly the same in the US. Any specialized doctor that I have to see I have to schedule months in advance. I'm on the East Coast. Maybe it's different elsewhere.
I also doubt that there are no private hospitals in Canada. So you can always get what the US gets.

Yes. It is absolutely that way ( most of the time) to see a specialist in many major cities. It gets worse if you need more " specialized" not usual cancer treatment or the like.

 

[KrisZ]

I don't want to derail the thread, but it's exactly the same in the US. Any specialized doctor that I have to see I have to schedule months in advance. I'm on the East Coast. Maybe it's different elsewhere.
I also doubt that there are no private hospitals in Canada. So you can always get what the US gets.

You have no idea. You can wait months for a simple cat scan or MRI. With cancer related cases you get priority, otherwise you're in line with everybody else. It's not even close to what we have in US.

And there are no private hospitals in Canada. Clinics, yes, but no hospitals.

 

[goblin]

You have no idea. You can wait months for a simple cat scan or MRI. With cancer related cases you get priority, otherwise you're in line with everybody else. It's not even close to what we have in US.

And there are no private hospitals in Canada. Clinics, yes, but no hospitals.

So they can't get to a private Canadian practice or hospital, pay US prices (probably - what they'd pay in the US if they were already insured - or less), and get fast service ? They are held at gunpoint to stick with public hospitals ? Come on. Even in France - the mothership of free healthcare - you can pay extra for private insurance that will give you access to better facilities, or just cough out of pocket. I doubt Canada is more to the left than them.

It's not about grass being greener on the other side. It's about getting the best grass there is, wherever it is, and bring it here. We're good at that for everything, healthcare shouldn't be an exception.

 

[KrisZ]

So they can't get to a private Canadian practice or hospital, pay US prices (probably - what they'd pay in the US if they were already insured - or less), and get fast service ? They are held at gunpoint to stick with public hospitals ? Come on. Even in France - the mothership of free healthcare - you can pay extra for private insurance that will give you access to better facilities, or just cough out of pocket. I doubt Canada is more to the left than them.

It's not about grass being greener on the other side. It's about getting the best grass there is, wherever it is, and bring it here. We're good at that for everything, healthcare shouldn't be an exception.

Again, you have no idea, but keep dreaming up stuff that doesn't exist. The only private hospital care for Canadians is south of the border, which many of them choose over waiting and potentially dying.

Edit:
Here is a good read:

https://harrisonhealthcare.ca/private-healthcare-in-canada/

 

[goblin]

So at the end of the day - their worst case scenario is what we have as only scenario ?

 

[JeffKeryk]

There is no student debt in Norway because university education is free of cost there for citizens, just as it is almost everywhere in the developed world outside of our own country.
There is also no medical bankruptcy there, because the cost of care is limited to a low annual deductible, as is the case everywhere in the developed world, except for here.
Maybe we really can learn from other countries rather that trying to tell them how they should run things?

Education is key. Around here you can go to the excellent Community Colleges tuition free. Lotsa on-line. The CA University System is off the charts incredible.
Beyond that, many employers will reimburse your tuition. My education cost me very little. And you better believe my employers moved me into positions to make use their investment.

Education is a key reason why CA is ongoing the world's 4th or 5th largest economy. The numbers don't lie.
Or maybe it's the sunshine?

 

[KrisZ]

So at the end of the day - their worst case scenario is what we have as only scenario ?

Not sure what you mean here. In US you can easily drive to another private hospital in another city or state, if the ones near you are fully booked. You have no such option in Canada. You're simply put on a waiting list and you can't travel out of province, because the gov will refuse the service. Since they're footing the bill, they can dictate the terms.
That's why many people choose to travel to US or even Europe to get their treatment immediately, instead of waiting for months.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Again, you have no idea, but keep dreaming up stuff that doesn't exist. The only private hospital care for Canadians is south of the border, which many of them choose over waiting and potentially dying.

Edit:
Here is a good read:

https://harrisonhealthcare.ca/private-healthcare-in-canada/

I think you are arguing neither system is perfect. And you would be right. I've taken sick people, and I mean really sick, to hospitals where they thought they had insurance but were turned away. Ended up at Valley Med, our local County Hospital, that is amazing. Man could I tell you some stories... Sheesh.

 

[KrisZ]

I think you are arguing neither system is perfect. And you would be right. I've taken sick people, and I mean really sick, to hospitals where they thought they had insurance but were turned away. Ended up at Valley Med, our local County Hospital, that is amazing. Man could I tell you some stories... Sheesh.

It's the others that seem to argue that Canadian or European health care system are perfect or at least better than what we have in US.
I'm simply pointing out that these "free" healthcare systems are quite flawed and in many cases are far worse than US.

Tell me, how many people from US seek healthcare in EU or Canada vs the other way around?

The good thing Canada has managed, is the controlled drug prices. But then again, it may all be subsidized by US market anyways, it's hard to tell if it would stand on its own.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It's the others that seem to argue that Canadian or European health care system are perfect or at least better than what we have in US.
I'm simply pointing out that these "free" healthcare systems are quite flawed and in many cases are far worse than US.

Tell me, how many people from US seek healthcare in EU or Canada vs the other way around?

The only good thing in Canada, is the controlled drug prices. But then again, it may all be subsidized by US market anyways, it's hard to tell if it would stand on its own.

Canada medicine saved my father's life. He had prostrate cancer and the best Doctors here told him his cancer was too far advanced for treatment, "Let nature take it's course." He was supposed to live 6 months; perhaps 1 year. My Mom heard of a cancer institute in Quebec; we sent him up there. They started him on falutamide treatment. As 6 months and then a year passed, his Doctor told him, "Frank, I write death warrants for men like you everyday."

Afterwards my Dad asked his oncologist why they did not offer him this treatment. "We knew about it, but it wasn't approved of yet. We can get it now."

He lived many more years; made it to 96 and got to live and die in his own home.

On another note, it's kinda well known that you can take a nice vacation down in Mexico and get a nice set of dental implants for a fraction of the price here.

Beyond that, I fully expect Artificial Intelligence to play a key role, in fact to revolutionalize, medicine. With our aging population, I hope it hurrys up cuz our systems are stressed and filthy expensive as it is.

 

[KrisZ]

Your father was one lucky man, but that’s not the norm. In most cases, it’s the Canadians seeking medical help in US, not the other way around.

 

[goblin]

... In most cases, it’s the Canadians seeking medical help in US, not the other way around.

Duh - because healthcare wouldn't be free for Americans going to Canada, wouldn't it ? Why would they go there if they have to cough the same prices they'd pay in the US ?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Your father was one lucky man, but that’s not the norm. In most cases, it’s the Canadians seeking medical help in US, not the other way around.

Was he lucky here? No. Was he lucky my Mom found out about Quebec and they helped him? Yes.

Unlike many, I try not to generalize. There is no perfect system. Our's is not. Don't get me wrong, I have the means to buy the best coverage in retirement. Others are no so lucky. It's complicated; it's expensive. And medicine is not a perfect science.

But you are right, and thanks for the kind words. He was a lucky man. The son of poor Ukrainian immigrants, enlisted in the Navy when WWII broke out; they sent him to Yale U where he played football. And beat one of the biggest killers of men...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Duh - because healthcare wouldn't be free for Americans going to Canada, wouldn't it ? Why would they go there if they have to cough the same prices they'd pay in the US ?

I think they treated my father for free; not sure. That was in the early 90's as I recall.

 

[4WD]

Exactly, Canada is the same. For regular check ups and such, it's great, but if you need specialized tests and treatment, you need to wait. Nobody cares if you die while waiting. Many choose to pay and go to US to get top notch care.
Free schooling? Well, the downside is that even low level jobs require higher education because companies have plenty to choose from. Even if the education doesn't match the job, corporations will always choose someone with the paper rather than without, it's simple as that.

The grass always looks greener on the other side.

I know this from working there many years - sent flowers several times - maybe I never even met this person … ie, my friend’s mom though …

Another thread gone ideological - you know, bcs I was there 5 days as a coddled tourist …

 

[KrisZ]

I think they treated my father for free; not sure. That was in the early 90's as I recall.

Early 90s would explain it. Canadian healthcare system only went downhill because of massive immigration and lack of funding. So the system has a lot more patients, but not enough staff and facilities.

I’m not sure your father would’ve received the same treatment today. Probably not.

 

[Leo99]

Norway has expensive fuel, but Norway is a huge oil exporter, and money goes to the sovereign fund, or officially, the Government Pension Fund Global.
Currently, their fund is above $2 trillion and basically guarantees the financial security of future generations. That is by far largest sovereign fund in the world.
Norway has a huge petroleum industry (Statoil), and basically, they sell it elsewhere, and most of the profits fill that fund. They on other hand choose to go EV, hydroelectric.
Some 20 years ago, I was talking at some event with one of the founders of Greenpeace, who left the organization because he was pushing hydroelectric as renewable, and others were just, well, not open to it. It is that game of black and white.
As for 1.6% of military spending, Norway could do better. They border Russia, and considering their finances, they should be spending 2% of NATO's minimum, which they agreed to some 20 years ago. I think current events will change that dynamic.

I didn't realize that Norway bordered Russia until I looked at a map. How many people live up that far north?

I would have bet Saudi Arabia had the largest sovereign fund.

 

[4WD]

Early 90s would explain it. Canadian healthcare system only went downhill because of massive immigration and lack of funding. So the system has a lot more patients, but not enough staff and facilities.

I’m not sure your father would’ve received the same treatment today. Probably not.

When I left at Christmas 23’ - we were getting pushed out of hotel after hotel - all whilst investing hundreds of millions …

 

[SumGuy]

I read something about consumer electricity prices in Norway a year or two ago, it was in a story about their EV adoption rate, the electricity pricing didn't make sense - it was krazy expensive. If anyone can give a reality check on this, please do. Unless I totally got it wrong, the high EV adoption rate didn't make $ense, especially with all that "free" hydro-electric power.