Water Injection in Old/Tired Chevy 350 TBI

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ARCO...this engine is hydro flat tappet. Not roller.

Besides, the Restore I added to the oil seems to have really cut the oil consumption down quite a bit. But the plug is still fouling. Engine runs pretty good.

Obviously, I think some people are here are getting tired of me asking for advice and asking questions about this....they want me to just shut up and fix it.

I understand that logic. My wife needs her car (the Altima). And this truck is all I got...until it warms up and I can start riding my scooters around. Then I'll have a chance to take this truck out of service for a week or so to perhaps "fix it right." Until then, I'll continue my RESTORE treatment. Maybe give her another steam cleaning. And see what happens.
 
Originally Posted By: Brons2
couple of tanks of e85 might clean things up a bit. it certainly won't ping on it.


Totally agree... and even a few extra gallons in regular gas will improve things immensely.... Octane and decarbonization wise..
 
I don't think that old truck would run very good or at all with E85. E85 could damage the fuel system. E10 is hard enough on the older fuel system. Besides ethanol isn't going to help the valve seals which are most likely most of the issue.
 
Let's get back on topic, people.
mad.gif


Water Injection for an old/tired TBI engine.


For 3/4 of a 350 engine, or a 4.3 V6. My truck does not have any particular driveability problems. It is tuned up, tip top, like a rock, etc. But I get bored, and think it might be easy to rig up some water injection, just because. Maybe I can even knock some big chunks of carbon loose and clog up the converter. I'm not paying $300 for some fancy kit. I could get a little tank with a high pressure pump, a spray nozzle on the aircleaner lid, and a vacuum switch rigged so it only sprays under heavy loads. Race truck?
05.gif
 
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Let's get back on topic, people.
mad.gif


Water Injection for an old/tired TBI engine.


For 3/4 of a 350 engine, or a 4.3 V6. My truck does not have any particular driveability problems. It is tuned up, tip top, like a rock, etc. But I get bored, and think it might be easy to rig up some water injection, just because. Maybe I can even knock some big chunks of carbon loose and clog up the converter. I'm not paying $300 for some fancy kit. I could get a little tank with a high pressure pump, a spray nozzle on the aircleaner lid, and a vacuum switch rigged so it only sprays under heavy loads. Race truck?
05.gif



Forget the water, get a tank of NOS!
H72WS1z.gif
 
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: eyeofthetiger
Let's get back on topic, people.
mad.gif


Water Injection for an old/tired TBI engine.


For 3/4 of a 350 engine, or a 4.3 V6. My truck does not have any particular driveability problems. It is tuned up, tip top, like a rock, etc. But I get bored, and think it might be easy to rig up some water injection, just because. Maybe I can even knock some big chunks of carbon loose and clog up the converter. I'm not paying $300 for some fancy kit. I could get a little tank with a high pressure pump, a spray nozzle on the aircleaner lid, and a vacuum switch rigged so it only sprays under heavy loads. Race truck?
05.gif



Forget the water, get a tank of NOS!
H72WS1z.gif



I'll give the public works a call and see if I can get my taps switched over from water to NOS.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Buy an old edelbrock water injection kit. It doesn't use a pump and is perfect for carb/TBI engines.


https://m.ebay.com/itm/EDELBROCK-VARA-JE...amp;_mwBanner=1

Whoa now, that is pricey. I could do an ebay turbo kit for not much more.
In fact, why don't I just do a turbo? A small one, low pressure, maybe 4 PSI. I would like some backwards exhaust manifolds to make the plumbing easier. And water injection, of course.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Buy an old edelbrock water injection kit. It doesn't use a pump and is perfect for carb/TBI engines.


Yes it does use a pump. Mine was installed on a radical poncho 400 and was adjustable for rpm, volume, and duration. Worked very well for its time and allowed a ton of timing advance which worked great with my cam...
 
Originally Posted By: jegs
Have you ever checked the ignition timing? It is adjustable and must be set on these engines. If it is set to far advanced the engine will tend to be pingy.

Also have you replaced the intake gaskets. These engines are notorious for leaking water into the oil from bad intake manifold gaskets but sometimes there will be a leak from an intake port to the lifter valley and it will suck in oil. I have seen these engines go 250k without using oil so it could be an intake leak instead of piston ring wear especially since it only fouls one plug.


I had one that did just that. Bad intake gaskets and it used one quart every 300 miles.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Self-activiated (vacuum) water injection rarely works quite the way you hope it will. For one thing, you really only need to be injecting water under heavy load / high RPM where the pinging occurs, and that's where vacuum is NOT going to help you! You'll be injecting the most water when you're coasting or idling, and that's going to a) not help pinging, and b) contaminate the oil the most.

Effective water injection uses a pump, controller, and solenoid shutoff valve to atomize the water and deliver it only when the RPMS are up and the vacuum is down (manifold absolute pressure is the highest, in other words).



There are 2 types of engine vacuum, ported and manifold. A ported vacuum (sourced above the throttle plate) bubbler setup with a temperature vacuum switch would do the job he want to try.
The merits of rebuilding or changing seals or the money spent on additives has all been covered in the thread.
 
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Buy an old edelbrock water injection kit. It doesn't use a pump and is perfect for carb/TBI engines.


Yes it does use a pump. Mine was installed on a radical poncho 400 and was adjustable for rpm, volume, and duration. Worked very well for its time and allowed a ton of timing advance which worked great with my cam...


Know what, I was actually thinking of the Novak injection. Yes, the vara-jection does use a pump.

But since he has a smog pump, the Novak injection system could be made on the real cheap for his truck:

https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/water-injection-zmaz79sozraw
 
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Washer pumps work great and were used before the commercial water/meth injection kits like the overpriced Snow stuff... The trick is getting a nozzle that will create a fine mist into the intake tract. With todays elaborate intakes you dont want water puddling anywhere, it needs to be atomized to be properly distributed.


Washer pump has enough pressure to produce a well atomised spray? Surprised.

I've seen an article on a DIY system somewhere and they used a fairly high prerssure pump from some kind of high end esspresso machine. Wasn't peanuts.

Worked but IIRC they were looking for performance/fuel economy benefits, (not just maintenance decoking like the OP), and they couldn't measure any.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Buy an old edelbrock water injection kit. It doesn't use a pump and is perfect for carb/TBI engines.


Yes it does use a pump. Mine was installed on a radical poncho 400 and was adjustable for rpm, volume, and duration. Worked very well for its time and allowed a ton of timing advance which worked great with my cam...


Know what, I was actually thinking of the Novak injection. Yes, the vara-jection does use a pump.

But since he has a smog pump, the Novak injection system could be made on the real cheap for his truck:

https://www.motherearthnews.com/green-transportation/water-injection-zmaz79sozraw


Yes, that is a cool setup to use the already existing smog pump...
 
My car has started to run-on a bit and I was thinking of doing something similar. I believe I stopped it pinking by temporarily running an IV line into a vacuum hose some years ago but, as has been pointed out above, the delivery pattern with that is the wrong way round.

This time I was thinking I might make myself a combo recording filter restriction guage and permanent de-coker. IIRC the limit of acceptable filter restriction is 10 inches of water above that of a new filter.

Unfortunately I don't know what the restriction of a new filter is, and don't especially want to buy one to find out, but I think a connected water bottle will be sucked out to a depth equivalent to the maximum total restriction. You could then top it up as often and as much as you wish to give you "tunable" de-coking delivery.

If the filter isn't very restrictive you could supplement it with foam, paper or cloth provided you didn't exceed the advisory filter restriction limit.

Bad timing though, since its actually a bit chilly here right now, so the supply of aircon condensate has dried up.
 
A low-tech way around the atomisation problem might be to use steam.

You could generate this by dripping water into a boiler on the exhaust maifold, say a piece of brake pipe wrapped around it. This would give you some control over the rate of delivery.

You loose the charge cooling effect of liquid water but retain some of its anti-knock(?) and all of its decoke capability, plus you dont have to source distilled water, though if you use tap your boiler will furr-up.

It'll richen your mixture a bit so you might want to lean it to compensate.

You could also use steam pressure to deliver an atomised spray, but that's getting a bit more complicated.
 
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