Warranty questions

[Pablo]

Read the words in almost all, if not all manuals in regard to API.

Quote them word for word. Pretty well weasel worded, IMHO.

If fact, I have never read: "You SHALL use API CERTIFIED oil or your warranty will be deemed null and void"

What does that tell you?

 

[NHHEMI]

It tells me that unless I have a lot of money to fight them if I tried to use a non API certified oil, that they clearly tell me to use in the manual, that I best just use it. Just not worth it and IMO they would win. I believe the car mfg can require API certification. One thing is for sure, have engine trouble that is lubrication related, while using a non API certified oil of the appropriate service level, and they sure will think they can void you. The car mfg's WILL fight you if you don't( and have problems )whether or not they are 100% legal in requiring it. I try not to get into fights I know before hand I will lose.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
It tells me that unless I have a lot of money to fight them if I tried to use a non API certified oil, that they clearly tell me to use in the manual, that I best just use it. Just not worth it. The car mfg's WILL fight you if you don't and have problems.


So the car companies weasel word the API statement because they are looking for a fight? No, of course not.

Why can't the automobile manufacturers be 100% crystal, perfect English, clear about REQUIRING purchasers of their fine cars to use ONLY API certified oil?

 

[NHHEMI]

Sorry but I don't see it as weasel wording??? Seems pretty straight forward to me.

No, they are not looking for a fight. They are trying to minimize their risk of providing that warranty. To do so they set requirements that help ensure the engine is properly maintained.

 

[Bill in Utah]

From Toyota Manual;



Says to use API SL.

From Warranty booklet;



"Warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or *indirectly* from any of the following;

Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owners manual."

Actual scans from my warranty booklets from Toyota. (I don't make this stuff up)

Pretty clear I think..

Bill

 

[Pablo]

Exactly not clear. Why can't they say "shall use API certified and listed"?

"API Grade SL.........."

Amsoil (all varieties except some of the diesel oils) satisfies that requirement. No issues.

 

[demarpaint]

Their legal departments sure do spell it out pretty clear.

Frank D

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Their legal departments sure do spell it out pretty clear.

Frank D


Where?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Their legal departments sure do spell it out pretty clear.

Frank D


Where?


I can't paste from the actual page from the manual: Oil grade API SL energy conserving or ISLAC multigrade engine oil. recommended viscisity 5W30.

Quote:

"Warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting directly or *indirectly* from any of the following;

Lack of or improper maintenance, including use of fluids other than those specified in the Owners manual."

To me that's clear as long as the oil is API SL or ISLAC multigrade you're good to go.

To me and Bill in Utah its crystal clear, to others it might appear foggy. If there is a problem related to oil and the car mfg takes a position of not covering a warranty, it time for a lawyer.

Honestly I think Amsoil makes a great product, and wouldn't hesitate to use it, other people might not think the same way, if they don't see the API or ISLAC mentioned.

Summer 09 Amsoil 0W20 goes into my 08 Jeep, w/o hesitation.

Frank D

 

[Pablo]

Quote:
Oil grade API SL energy conserving or ISLAC multigrade engine oil. recommended viscisity 5W30.


Pretend I don't have the Amsoil icon by my name. I understand what you are saying but that statement simply is NOT rock solid clear. An oil can satisfy that requirement and not be listed.

I'm not pushing Amsoil - I truly want to know: Why can't the manufacturer state it clearly? Something like: "Oil shall be API certified and listed......"

 

[demarpaint]

I'm not trying to break balls or blow smoke, so the logo doesn't mean anything. Before joining this board I had my doubts about just how good Amsoil products were. After reading UOA's seeing others success stories and trying their grease and some sundry products I was hooked. If it wasn't for an early December OC I would be using it now.

With all that said. To me the above statement in the Toyota OM is pretty clear, why exactly they stated it in those extact words, well that's anyone's guess.

Frank D

 

[jeff8407]

Dealers are notorious for trying to weasel out of replacing engines using the "wrong oil" routine.

The dealer must prove that the different oil caused the failure.

I had a problem with the dealer trying that tactic when I lost a con-rod bearing on my 1999 Ford F-150 with only 23K miles.

I made a phone call to Mobil--I was using Mobil 1 and had receipts. Mobil told me that as long as I had been using rate API rating, grade(thickness) didn't matter and they'd back me.

I wound up showing the dealer my receipts for Mobil 1 and they dropped the argument.

 

[zulu]

I don't have a scanner, or I'd scan my GM owners manual. Both of my vehicles state specifically to use an API rated oil with "starburst" symbol and 6094M specs. The then state IN BOLD LETTERS: "FALIURE TO USE A NON-API APPROVED OIL OR OIL NOT MEETING GM 6094M SPECIFICATIONS MAY CAUSE ENGINE DAMAGE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY" Why did they take the time to make a bolded statement in the manual over something so trivial?

I totally understand Amsoil's stance on this, and NOBODY on this board can argue that their oils won't exceed these requirements, but the fact of the matter is that except of the XL line, AMSOILS LINE IS NOT CERTIFIED BY THE API!!!!!

I've dealt with lots of warranty claims and if you guys think for one second they won't hesitate to blame Amsoil for some totally un-related issue, think again. I've never met a dealer that wouldn't take the opportunity to void a warranty claim if they could find a way. It may be illegal, but the burden of proof will now be on YOU! Keep in mind most dealers/service writers are SIGNIFICANTLY less informed than we are. They only know what their lawyers tell them to do.

NHHEMI summed it up quite nicely. I still use Amsoil from time to time, but I am willing to accept possible warranty related issues that may arise from it.

 

[demarpaint]

I worked in 5 different dealerships in about 4 years. I learned all the little tricks. If there is a major warranty issue, (although very few), they will try to find a way out. Any areas of gray make it easier for them. An educated consumer is their worst nightmare in those gray areas, but be prepared for one [censored] of a fight. Sadly there are also a lot of lay-downs, and uneducated people that they can get over on.

Frank D

 

[Pablo]

Quote:
FALIURE TO USE A NON-API APPROVED OIL OR OIL NOT MEETING GM 6094M SPECIFICATIONS MAY CAUSE ENGINE DAMAGE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY


The fact that GM puts it in bold yet they still can't say listed AND they add the 6094M tells me they would still need to prove the oil was inferior.

As for Amsoil, they actually stand by at the ready for dealers to try that garbage. It's no wonder GM (essentially) went under.

 

[zulu]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
Quote:
FALIURE TO USE A NON-API APPROVED OIL OR OIL NOT MEETING GM 6094M SPECIFICATIONS MAY CAUSE ENGINE DAMAGE NOT COVERED UNDER WARRANTY


The fact that GM puts it in bold yet they still can't say listed AND they add the 6094M tells me they would still need to prove the oil was inferior.

As for Amsoil, they actually stand by at the ready for dealers to try that garbage. It's no wonder GM (essentially) went under.


There's no arguing the fact that Amsoil would far exceed any test GM throws at it. The fact is that GM hasn't tested it, so they won't stamp their approval on it.

The lawyers wrote the manual, not the engineers. It's in bold for a reason (but probably not a good reason). I know Amsoil is ready to defend their customers, but it's STILL a hassle to go through the process regardless. It's not just GM. I've had more denided warranty issues with Honda/Acura than I have with GM.

 

[Drew99GT]

Originally Posted By: Pablo

I'm not pushing Amsoil -

Originally Posted By: Pablo

I truly want to know: Why can't the manufacturer state it clearly? Something like: "Oil shall be API certified and listed......"


Look at any owner's manual, like Bill posted above, where it says: Use Toyota motor oil or equivalent API Grade SL "Energy Conserving" or ILSAC multigrade engine oil

 

[Pablo]

"Or equivalent...." would last a NY minute in a courtroom.

 

[Ken2]

NHHemi hit it out of the park. Demarpaint hit a triple. Pablo, sorry buddy, you've got two strikes and the catcher is calling for a curve ball.

If you have a warranty claim relating to a lubricated part, and if you can't prove that you've been following the owner's manual guidance, you'll have a fight.

Yes, the car maker has to prove that the unauthorized lubrication you did caused the problem. Does anybody really think they'll do that, or do you think they'll just stonewall?

By the way, has anyone really read the fine print in the Amsoil warranty? It has more holes than my socks. You need an 8(!) ounce oil sample, batch number of the Amsoil oil, and other documentation. You need a written copy of the OEM warranty denial. Amsoil's insurer may require an inspection of the parts. No equipment modifications. Claim rejected due to faulty equipment(!) So if the equipment is faulty, the OEM won't pay to fix it because you didn't use the "right" oil, and Amsoil won't pay because it was faulty.
http://www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx

And, you don't have use of the vehicle for that period of time.

 

[chet2]

HEMI is right it is the magnusson moss act...i would use right visc but it is highly improbable amsoil would do anything but help engine...i think they would have to show amsoil damaged engine or you neglected it