The us market has room for 4th tier auto makers. Vw got bumped out soon by Subaru and definitely Kia/Hyundai.
VW faces big test of dealer faith...
- Thread starter wemay
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In my humble opinion (TRANSLATION I do not have facts-as many of us here don't):
Veedubs' product line has its appeal and competition as stated above.
A percentage of buyers will forgive/overlook the lie. Another percentage will not.
VW can come up with replacement engines and notify the industry/public when the time comes.
How much time they have is a question.
How contrite vs. how defiant a guilty party has to act in public (via press releases and advertising) is a question.
Maybe the car company can pollute within limits with BETTER BUILT CARS. What a frikkin' concept....IMPROVE!
The line, "Porsche couldn't make a deisel electric tank work for Hitler so why would their electric cars work now?" is really stoned.
"Somebody tell that guy the war is over", R. Dangerfield
Honestly, the Wehrmacht was 75 years ago. It is fun to say "Hitler". I do it myself sometimes. Kira
Veedubs' product line has its appeal and competition as stated above.
A percentage of buyers will forgive/overlook the lie. Another percentage will not.
VW can come up with replacement engines and notify the industry/public when the time comes.
How much time they have is a question.
How contrite vs. how defiant a guilty party has to act in public (via press releases and advertising) is a question.
Maybe the car company can pollute within limits with BETTER BUILT CARS. What a frikkin' concept....IMPROVE!
The line, "Porsche couldn't make a deisel electric tank work for Hitler so why would their electric cars work now?" is really stoned.
"Somebody tell that guy the war is over", R. Dangerfield
Honestly, the Wehrmacht was 75 years ago. It is fun to say "Hitler". I do it myself sometimes. Kira
IMO, VW is here to stay. Yes it's a big scandal, but GM has weathered the ignition switch recall, Ford the Pinto controversy, Toyota with the gas pedals (which was [censored] really), Porsche and their ties to the Nazi's, (well pretty much every German marque), Chrysler and bankruptcy x2, GM and bankruptcy, the list goes on and on.
International (Navistar) trucks are still the biggest sellers in North America in the medium duty segment, even with their pile of poop Maxxforce engines (which allegedly don't meet emissions standards either).
If they really find themselves in deep financial trouble, the fatherland (German Govt) will bail them out. No way are they going to let a massive employer go out of business, especially with a faltering economy.
Also take note of the fact that Takata is still afloat. Even with 12 (iirc) people dead and many more injured from their faulty airbags. They too will probably weather the storm.
While I personally wouldn't ever own a VW (insane maintenance and repair procedures and spotty reliability), they are nice cars to drive and have a certain panache or flair that many other entry level vehicles, such as Toyota and Honda don't.
International (Navistar) trucks are still the biggest sellers in North America in the medium duty segment, even with their pile of poop Maxxforce engines (which allegedly don't meet emissions standards either).
If they really find themselves in deep financial trouble, the fatherland (German Govt) will bail them out. No way are they going to let a massive employer go out of business, especially with a faltering economy.
Also take note of the fact that Takata is still afloat. Even with 12 (iirc) people dead and many more injured from their faulty airbags. They too will probably weather the storm.
While I personally wouldn't ever own a VW (insane maintenance and repair procedures and spotty reliability), they are nice cars to drive and have a certain panache or flair that many other entry level vehicles, such as Toyota and Honda don't.
When cars are selling well, Volkswagon dealers can be a snotty as their higher priced relatives.
i'm on the look out for a 14 TDI. with a manual trans.
i'd love a cruze diesel but no manual offered.
the MANUAL trans is why i'll buy the VW. they are all over with well over 300K miles and still going strong. so yeah i'll get a low mile one. you betchya.
i'd love a cruze diesel but no manual offered.
the MANUAL trans is why i'll buy the VW. they are all over with well over 300K miles and still going strong. so yeah i'll get a low mile one. you betchya.
It's not as though the dealers have any good choices.
They can either throw in the towel now and take the financial loss or they can hang in there and hope for a better future.
Back in the Beetle days, a VW franchise would make one quite prosperous. This hasn't been the case for the past forty years.
The US market has found VW products lacking and the diesel emissions scandal only makes matters worse.
The notion that VW products are actually wonderful and it's the proletarian US market that fails to appreciate them that's the problem is laughable.
It will be a miracle if VW can resolve this problem with any retrofit recall that won't seriously impair the operating costs of cars that people bought mainly because they promised low operating costs.
However the issue is resolved, VW will be out some serious coin and may end up with some seriously honked off buyers.
If they handle the inevitable recalls as well as Lexus or Mercedes would, then the buyers might actually gain loyalty to VW, although VW might have to dump an extra several tens of thousands of free loaner cars into the mix to make this work.
They can either throw in the towel now and take the financial loss or they can hang in there and hope for a better future.
Back in the Beetle days, a VW franchise would make one quite prosperous. This hasn't been the case for the past forty years.
The US market has found VW products lacking and the diesel emissions scandal only makes matters worse.
The notion that VW products are actually wonderful and it's the proletarian US market that fails to appreciate them that's the problem is laughable.
It will be a miracle if VW can resolve this problem with any retrofit recall that won't seriously impair the operating costs of cars that people bought mainly because they promised low operating costs.
However the issue is resolved, VW will be out some serious coin and may end up with some seriously honked off buyers.
If they handle the inevitable recalls as well as Lexus or Mercedes would, then the buyers might actually gain loyalty to VW, although VW might have to dump an extra several tens of thousands of free loaner cars into the mix to make this work.
VW gasoline engine cars sell however they sell...
VW marketed a super diesel which provided pep and promised higher mileage, no?
So why not say, "Hey, we promised too much and knew we had to lie to make diesel engines appealing to the 'speed hungry' market. We'll make a good old fashioned diesel which EVERYONE expects to run like a classic diesel (slow) but you will get the mileage.
Want snap? buy gasoline. Want longevity and high mileage? buy diesel.
Why not?
VW could offer free tattoos, scrotal rings, belly button hardware and facial piercings to attract younger buyers.
"Now Junior, take this voucher to the nice man in the parts department". Kira
VW marketed a super diesel which provided pep and promised higher mileage, no?
So why not say, "Hey, we promised too much and knew we had to lie to make diesel engines appealing to the 'speed hungry' market. We'll make a good old fashioned diesel which EVERYONE expects to run like a classic diesel (slow) but you will get the mileage.
Want snap? buy gasoline. Want longevity and high mileage? buy diesel.
Why not?
VW could offer free tattoos, scrotal rings, belly button hardware and facial piercings to attract younger buyers.
"Now Junior, take this voucher to the nice man in the parts department". Kira
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Trav
They sure will, the US is slowly becoming a second tier market.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/04/19/vw-coupe-china-market-us-show/26011629/
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/china/2014-full-year-china-worldwide-german-luxury-car-sales/
This is absolutely true, I'd say the US ranks as a developing third world country when it comes to the passenger vehicle market.
Look at all the interesting products other countries get that we will never see, even though in many cases they surpass what is currently on the market here.
But I think VW will stay in the US market for the sake of pride, if nothing else. When you consider that the Toyota Camry, Ford F-150 Toyota Corolla and a bunch of bloated CUV/SUV are the biggest sellers why bother making too much of an effort.
All too true.
VW is a massive seller the world over. The garbage anti-diesel regulations that CARB and then the EPA as a result throw around, are just irrelevant on the world stage. VW is a massive automaker on par with GM and Toyota. The US market could disappear and I can't see it meaning much if they play China well.
Even if they exited the us sales market, they likely could still use their domestic production capability for Asian and South American products, if the financial hit was less than selling and closing it. If they kept the US market, even a smaller dealer base and more pointed sales network could work, if they focused on some of the more euro oriented options like GTIs.
VW is here to stay even if not selling in the USA.
Originally Posted By: Trav
They sure will, the US is slowly becoming a second tier market.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/04/19/vw-coupe-china-market-us-show/26011629/
http://www.best-selling-cars.com/china/2014-full-year-china-worldwide-german-luxury-car-sales/
This is absolutely true, I'd say the US ranks as a developing third world country when it comes to the passenger vehicle market.
Look at all the interesting products other countries get that we will never see, even though in many cases they surpass what is currently on the market here.
But I think VW will stay in the US market for the sake of pride, if nothing else. When you consider that the Toyota Camry, Ford F-150 Toyota Corolla and a bunch of bloated CUV/SUV are the biggest sellers why bother making too much of an effort.
All too true.
VW is a massive seller the world over. The garbage anti-diesel regulations that CARB and then the EPA as a result throw around, are just irrelevant on the world stage. VW is a massive automaker on par with GM and Toyota. The US market could disappear and I can't see it meaning much if they play China well.
Even if they exited the us sales market, they likely could still use their domestic production capability for Asian and South American products, if the financial hit was less than selling and closing it. If they kept the US market, even a smaller dealer base and more pointed sales network could work, if they focused on some of the more euro oriented options like GTIs.
VW is here to stay even if not selling in the USA.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 5170
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
What's most humorous is that someone paid the fee to get a "vanity" plate to "advertise" that. And here I thought they were financially damaged and probably irreversibly poisoned from NOx and soot.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
What's most humorous is that someone paid the fee to get a "vanity" plate to "advertise" that. And here I thought they were financially damaged and probably irreversibly poisoned from NOx and soot.
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: 5170
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
What's most humorous is that someone paid the fee to get a "vanity" plate to "advertise" that. And here I thought they were financially damaged and probably irreversibly poisoned from NOx and soot.
I guess if Volkswagen isn't going to buy the vehicle back, the owner feels compelled to let others know how they feel. The tag fee is but a small sacrifice for this "bigger picture" population. Good strawman argument though.
Originally Posted By: 5170
Originally Posted By: Leo99
I was driving on I-287 in New Jersey this afternoon and the car in front of me, a newer VW, had a license plate: VW LIES
Pretty angry owner and that type of bad advertisement will have an effect on many shoppers.
What's most humorous is that someone paid the fee to get a "vanity" plate to "advertise" that. And here I thought they were financially damaged and probably irreversibly poisoned from NOx and soot.
I guess if Volkswagen isn't going to buy the vehicle back, the owner feels compelled to let others know how they feel. The tag fee is but a small sacrifice for this "bigger picture" population. Good strawman argument though.
What really is the bigger picture, though?
Originally Posted By: Garak
What really is the bigger picture, though?
In general, this populous is extremely concerned with "doing thier part" for a cleaner environment and conservation of resources, maybe not as fervent as Prius owners, but along the same lines. This issue is viewed as a betrayal of those values.
What really is the bigger picture, though?
In general, this populous is extremely concerned with "doing thier part" for a cleaner environment and conservation of resources, maybe not as fervent as Prius owners, but along the same lines. This issue is viewed as a betrayal of those values.
So, the bigger picture is a pile of self-delusion, really. People are most willing to do what they thing is positive for the environment when and only when it inconveniences them the least possible.
If you don't want to produce emissions, you get on a bicycle, or use your feet. Then, you don't need to trust a company's testing, hope the EPA is doing things right, or rely on a university to figure out the truth, and then be up at arms about what may or may not have happened.
They're concerned enough about the environment to sling feces at VW/Audi, but not concerned enough to actually get the vehicle off the road, using one of many methods they could to achieve just that, because that would be inconvenient and/or costly. As long as "doing their part" is neither of those things, no problem.
If you don't want to produce emissions, you get on a bicycle, or use your feet. Then, you don't need to trust a company's testing, hope the EPA is doing things right, or rely on a university to figure out the truth, and then be up at arms about what may or may not have happened.
They're concerned enough about the environment to sling feces at VW/Audi, but not concerned enough to actually get the vehicle off the road, using one of many methods they could to achieve just that, because that would be inconvenient and/or costly. As long as "doing their part" is neither of those things, no problem.
When people get too blowhard-y about saving the environment, I like my slogan of
"Save the world, kill yourself."
No need to drive any cars, use any plastic, etc. You'll be plant food. Win, win, win
"Save the world, kill yourself."
No need to drive any cars, use any plastic, etc. You'll be plant food. Win, win, win
For the sake of argument...
Most TDi owners have families.
So, let's say I work 25 miles from home and gotta drop the kids off at school at 7:30am in the opposite direction. You really think public transportation or a bicycle are real options?
They may love the environment, but love their kids and livelihoods more. I think that level prioritizing is reasonable.
Most TDi owners have families.
So, let's say I work 25 miles from home and gotta drop the kids off at school at 7:30am in the opposite direction. You really think public transportation or a bicycle are real options?
They may love the environment, but love their kids and livelihoods more. I think that level prioritizing is reasonable.
Well, I don't doubt that the prioritizing is reasonable. The expectations, however, may not be, and that's where I have little patience with a bunch of manufactured outrage.
The problem is that people think that a simple, painless, basic consumer choice is all that's ever needed to change the world. There certainly are arguments for and against diesel, or hybrids, or whatever, but if TDIs were the answer to all our environmental woes, real or imagined, we shouldn't have any problems thanks to the penetration of diesel in Europe.
From what I've posted over the years and what I drive, it's clear that I'm no environmental evangelical. But, if one really wants to make sound decisions about their carbon footprint (I can't believe I said that
), then they're not going to be decisions that are going to be cheap and/or convenient. And, it's sure as heck not VW's fault that the decision isn't cheap and/or convenient, nor should I fall easy prey to marketing.
You want to cut emissions, park the car. Similarly, you want to cut fuel costs, park the car. No, it's not easy or convenient.
The problem is that people think that a simple, painless, basic consumer choice is all that's ever needed to change the world. There certainly are arguments for and against diesel, or hybrids, or whatever, but if TDIs were the answer to all our environmental woes, real or imagined, we shouldn't have any problems thanks to the penetration of diesel in Europe.
From what I've posted over the years and what I drive, it's clear that I'm no environmental evangelical. But, if one really wants to make sound decisions about their carbon footprint (I can't believe I said that
You want to cut emissions, park the car. Similarly, you want to cut fuel costs, park the car. No, it's not easy or convenient.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
The level of vitriol is what's disproportionate IMO. Anger for feeling betrayed is normal but the vehicles never left anyone stranded roadside. It doesn't let VW off the hook though. There needs to be a balance. I'd be more upset as a shareholder or dealership, and expecially factory employee.
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