VW 507.00 vs CBEA spec for DPF?

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Jdragnfly

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I have an '09 Jetta TDI CBEA and settled on Amsoil Euro formula 5w30 for the past several oil changes since 1) its 507.00 spec'd 2) my research convinced me its a great lubricant, and 3) its readily available to me at a decent price through my local independent VW parts place.

I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue in my expansion tank. My service tech, whom I trust from experience, saw the quart of Amsoil oil in my trunk and said that although he considered it an excellent oil for the engine, the fact that it was ACEA A3/B4 (and 1.5% sulfated ash content) rather than other C3 rated oils (0.6-0.8%), he was concerned about the life of my DPF. I emailed Amsoil to confirm the ash content in relation to my DPF concern, but they just replied that it was within VW 507.00 specs and, therefore, suitable.

Question: Is this significant/Should I be concerned? Should I not only be looking for a 507.00 spec oil, but especially for a C3 oil for the lower SAPS to protect my DPF? Also, can anyone confirm the Amsoil 1.5% ash figure I was quoted?

I posted this on another forum as well. Sorry if it's redundant.

Thanks in advance.
 
Amsoil in their web page claims that it's a low SAPS , so the ash content has got to be below 0.8% which is fine.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Amsoil AEL 5w30 is less than 0.8% SAPS.


If so, then I'm good to go. I can't seem to find any published specs that indicate this, though. Got something?
 
Originally Posted By: Jdragnfly
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Amsoil AEL 5w30 is less than 0.8% SAPS.


If so, then I'm good to go. I can't seem to find any published specs that indicate this, though. Got something?


I have asked Amsoil directly in the past. You are free to do so as well, if you wish. Plus you can look at UOA's and also the low starting TBN to come to the conclusion it's not even near a mid-SAPS oil.
 
Amsoil is only recommended for VW engines requiring a 507 spec by Amsoil themselves. It does not appear to be on the VW approved oil list. Lots of folks get the two confused and there is a difference between a recommendation from an oil company and an approval from a car manufacturer.


Originally Posted By: Oub
Originally Posted By: skyship
As far as I can see Amsoil is not on the VW approved list:
Summary:
http://www.my-gti.com/2540/volkswagen-oil-standard-504-00-507-00-approved-oils
Full list:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/529/VW_TSB_17_08_01_2008-Jan-11.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ael.aspx , it's VW 504-507 .
there are other choices , Mobil1 esp 5w30 ..........
 
I can only add this. The oil choice can affect the emission system on these TDIs.

The major emissions system warranty under federal law on these is 8 yrs/80k miles. I understand it to extend to the DPF.

If a non-507.00 approved oil is used and a major emission component fails, you've now created a basis to deny coverage.

While the oil may have absolutely nothing to do with it, the burden to prove that is going to fall on you.

Just food for thought.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
I can only add this. The oil choice can affect the emission system on these TDIs.

The major emissions system warranty under federal law on these is 8 yrs/80k miles. I understand it to extend to the DPF.

If a non-507.00 approved oil is used and a major emission component fails, you've now created a basis to deny coverage.

While the oil may have absolutely nothing to do with it, the burden to prove that is going to fall on you.

Just food for thought.


Can you please quote exactly, word for word, what the warranty says for this vehicle? Thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo

Can you please quote exactly, word for word, what the warranty says for this vehicle? Thanks.


What is this, the Inquisition?

The full vehicle warranty is a booklet. I'm not typing all that for you.

But I'll do better than that.

Here's the Federal Emission Warranty standards:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

The emissions warranty is broader still in Calif.:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/warranty.pdf

There are verbatim statements from VW posted all over the TDI forums that the federal emissions major systems warranty extends to the DPF on the CR diesels. You'll have to Google those up yourself, though.

Sorry Pabs, but it's 8/80 on the DPF and other big dollar emissions parts on these.

Use non-507.00 oils at risk if still under warranty.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: Pablo

Can you please quote exactly, word for word, what the warranty says for this vehicle? Thanks.


What is this, the Inquisition?

The full vehicle warranty is a booklet. I'm not typing all that for you.

But I'll do better than that.

Here's the Federal Emission Warranty standards:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/consumer/warr95fs.txt

The emissions warranty is broader still in Calif.:

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/warranty.pdf

There are verbatim statements from VW posted all over the TDI forums that the federal emissions major systems warranty extends to the DPF on the CR diesels. You'll have to Google those up yourself, though.

Sorry Pabs, but it's 8/80 on the DPF and other big dollar emissions parts on these.

Use non-507.00 oils at risk if still under warranty.


Inquisition? I politely asked for what the VW warranty says. I couldn't find it on the web, that's why I asked. The Fed and state coverage puts plenty of weight on the manufacturer but has nothing about lubricants and such, that I could see.

Not sure what you are "sorry" for, but to really answer the question on warranty, we will need to see what the word from VW are. Not just allege what will cause a warranty issue.
 
Yes, you did ask . . . "exactly, word for word".

The word from VW is the DPF is covered for 8/80.

Not using an approved oil can cause a warranty issue.

And that's the answer. Really.
 
Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Yes, you did ask . . . "exactly, word for word".

The word from VW is the DPF is covered for 8/80.

Not using an approved oil can cause a warranty issue.

And that's the answer. Really.


Asking for exact wording is very important. It's not that I'm interrogating, I'm trying to learn - as we all should be. Exact warranty wording is very important. I've seen no wording that that states using a 507 compliant oil will cause warranty issues. Perhaps you can prove me wrong, as that seems to be your goal. You've certainly been here long enough to know I have an open mind. Since I don't own the VW in question I don't have ready access to the wording. Searching VW's website was useless, and the web didn't help either. I wonder if there are scanned pages posted somewhere?
 
It is listed in the TSB for engine oils.... which states:
Oil Quality
All Volkswagen engines must always use engine oils that conform to the applicable Volkswagen Oil Quality Standard. No other
engine oils may be used. This also applies when topping off engine oil between services.

Note:
Use of the wrong oil may damage the engine. Damage caused by using the wrong oil will not be covered by the applicable vehicle warranties.

And within the TSB, Volkswagen lists all oils certified by VWAG for the applicable standard. So this rules out any Magnuson-Moss claims.

But this is also why Amsoil has their guarantee.... keep all your Amsoil receipts during the emissions warranty period... and if something were to happen, file a claim with Amsoil.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
It is listed in the TSB for engine oils.... which states:
Oil Quality
All Volkswagen engines must always use engine oils that conform to the applicable Volkswagen Oil Quality Standard. No other
engine oils may be used. This also applies when topping off engine oil between services.

Note:
Use of the wrong oil may damage the engine. Damage caused by using the wrong oil will not be covered by the applicable vehicle warranties.

And within the TSB, Volkswagen lists all oils certified by VWAG for the applicable standard. So this rules out any Magnuson-Moss claims.

But this is also why Amsoil has their guarantee.... keep all your Amsoil receipts during the emissions warranty period... and if something were to happen, file a claim with Amsoil.


Thank you sir - you are a scholar and a gentleman!

Key words "always use engine oils that conform to the applicable Volkswagen Oil Quality Standard"

Amsoil AEL conforms. It does not have to be listed. It has nothing to do with MM. VW cannot deny a claim because the oil conforms. Does NOT mean you can use ANY oil, and Amsoil can show AEL conforms.
 
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Amsoil paid Volkwagen AG a lot of money to get the certification from them?

If Amsoil knows what a given "quality standard" entails, they can determine whether they conform to it or not by performing their own tests. They don't need Volkswagen to tell them that.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Amsoil paid Volkwagen AG a lot of money to get the certification from them?

If Amsoil knows what a given "quality standard" entails, they can determine whether they conform to it or not by performing their own tests. They don't need Volkswagen to tell them that.


Well put.
 
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