Volvo V70 2.4L Redline 5W-30 Low TBN on UOA

[Sam_Julier]

Just received UOA from Blackstone after switching to Redline 5W-30. 47,710 miles total, 6,320 OCI, all highway miles. No oil consumption. TBN was .8 which is quite low for this oil. Spoke to Dave at Redline who felt the number is an error. Blackstone re-tested and came up with .7. This is the first Redline oil change on the car, all previous were bulk oil at dealership, 7,500 OCI. Oil analysis was exceptional with no metals - just a low TBN. Not sure what to make of this and would appreciate any thoughts.
-------------------------------------------

HENRY: No problems to report in this sample from your Volvo. Wear metals were quite low compared to averages, which show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 5,700 miles on the oil. Titanium is probably residual additive from one of the oils you ran in the past. The viscosity was in the 5W/30 range, just like it should be. No harmful contaminants were found. The TBN was 0.8, which is too low to recommend going much longer on the oil. Anything less that 1.0 shows that the oil is almost out of active additive. Stay between 6K and 7K next oil. Nice!
MI/HR on Oil 6,320
MI/HR on Unit
Sample Date
Make Up Oil Added
47,710 UNIT / 06/13/12 LOCATION
0 qts
UNIVERSAL AVERAGES
AVERAGES
ALUMINUM 22 3
CHROMIUM 00 0
IRON66 12
COPPER 2 2 4
LEAD00 3
TIN00 1
MOLYBDENUM 554 554 77
NICKEL 00 0
MANGANESE 0 0 1
SILVER 00 0
TITANIUM
POTASSIUM
BORON
12 12 0 2 2 1
62 62 43
SILICON 77 6
SODIUM 33 33 25
CALCIUM 2779 2779 2189
MAGNESIUM 9 9 98
PHOSPHORUS 1210 1210 711
ZINC 1264 1264 834
BARIUM 00 0
Values Should Be*
SUS Viscosity @ 210°F 58.4 56-63
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C
Flashpoint in °F
Fuel %
Antifreeze %
Water %
Insolubles %
TBN
TAN

 

[Turk]

Post the UOA sheet or numbers, please.

 

[daves87rs]

Surprised it is that low...

 

[dailydriver]

Yes, it sounds like EXTREME fuel (or water/blowby) dilution or something, but that UOA stated NO contaminants found.

 

[beast3300]

I was under the impression that Redline wasn't a long drain oil? Is this incorrect?

 

[Astro14]

Sam - I've had two great UOAs on the Volvos in my signature...equally low wear metals, but plenty of TBN (2.0 or greater) left at 7,500 (the factory interval on our cars) and my cars see mostly city driving, so I was concerned about the TBN...

The two oils in question were M1 0W40 and Pennzoil Ultra 5W40 Euro.

Redline makes a great oil, but it's not holding up as well in your car as the others did in my two, despite your gentler use of mostly highway miles. I've got 157,000 on the XC and 132,000 on the V70, by the way....

I would consider switching oil brands, and stay away from the bulk oil at the dealerships, many of them know nothing about oil and (I've heard them say this) will state "sure it meets spec, it's 5W30, exactly as Volvo recommends..." when what you need is an ACEA spec for longer drain...

 

[Sam_Julier]

This is the first Redline oil change after purchase. The V70 was a Certified Pre-Owned vehicle, I have no intention of having the dealer change the oil again.

I'm wondering if the solvency of a Class V POE base stock simply loaded up the additive package as it cleaned out the engine. The oil became dark quickly. I have Redline 5W-40 in the sump now. We'll see what the UOA looks like in 6,000 miles. If I have a low TBN again I'll consider a switch.

 

[Astro14]

I have to admit to being surprised by your UOA...Redline claims this for their 5W30:

Recommended for API SN/SM/SL/SJ/SH/SG/CF and ACEA A3/B3/B4, GM dexos1® (GM-LL-A-025, GM6094M and GM4718M)...

So, if it meets ACEA A3/B3, it should have held up longer...right?

I will be curious how well the 5W40 (which is more of a TD formulation) holds up...

 

[buster]

Well, I'm not surprised actually because RL's Tbn retention has never been that great. Or B/S Labs is just not good at measuring it. I don't trust their figures all the time either.

 

[buster]

Quote:
I'm wondering if the solvency of a Class V POE base stock simply loaded up the additive package as it cleaned out the engine.


That could very well be the case.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I will be curious how well the 5W40 (which is more of a TD formulation) holds up...



One would hope that it has more boron, and/or calcium in it to stand up to oil burner use, even though it has a reduced AW/FM add pack as compared to all of their other oils (except for their 15W-40).

 

[Sam_Julier]

The Redline UOA reports posted rarely have a TBN higher than 3, in fact most are 2.0 to 3.0. And Dave at Redline felt the TBN number in error. Since I'm going to stick to a 6,000 mile OCI it probably isn't an issue.

If I had to bet......I'd say the high solvency of the polyol ester base stock was cleaning up after the dealer bulk oil changes.

 

[skyship]

I definitely would not use Redline oil in a Volvo, their dealers in Germany use Castrol Edge Longlife 0/30 for new models and 5/40 Edge or Castrol Magnatec HC synthetic 5/40 for older Volvo engines. My guess is the turbo is chewing up the additives or there must be some odd chemistry in action, like high sulphur fuel or the engine running hotter than intended due to high speed towing etc.

If you want a diesel to last the oil should be changed before the manufacturers recommended interval if the TBN has dropped below half of the original figure (Which should be around the 10 mark for diesel oil). Some other folks quote 3 as a minimum, but the 1 given by Blackstones is a tad on the low side and if you don't want to change the oil because the other figures are good then you should add a can of additives.

In reality a better solution is to use a better fully synthetic oil like Castrol Edge, Mobil 1 or my favourite Liqui Moly 5/40 High Tech Synthoil. After 10,000 km of stop start winter driving my TBN was 4.7 (Initial of 9.6), so I will stick with 10,000 km at present for my Volvo and check out a UOA for Diesel Synthoil next.

 

[Sam_Julier]

The engine is a 2.4L non-turbo, gas; no towing. Redline 5W-40 in the engine now and will post UOA at next change. I plan to run LM Synthoil Energy 0W-40 or M1 if the Redline TBN is low again. Thank you for your input.

 

[skyship]

Sorry I thought I was looking at the diesel UOA list and forget I mentioned Synthoil, because I just took a look at the oil finder chart and it is not listed for your engine.
There is in reality no need to use an expensive fully synthetic oil for your car and it seems they only list 0/30 Longlife for the synthetics.
I would recommend sending LM in Germany (The site can be selected to English) a message asking which oil to use as they list about 5. The idea of using the 0/30 Longlife and an extended range filter could save you a lot of oil changes.
You can cross check with the Mobil or Castrol oil guides to see what they list for your engine. The Volvo dealer in Germany uses Castrol Edge or Magnetec for older Volvos and the new Longlife oils for the more modern ones, BUT most owners switch to LM after their warranty expires and use the synthetic technology oil, which are HC oils but listed as fully synthetic in some countries, because the Germans define more oil groups than the US or UK.



Originally Posted By: Sam_Julier
The engine is a 2.4L non-turbo, gas; no towing. Redline 5W-40 in the engine now and will post UOA at next change. I plan to run LM Synthoil Energy 0W-40 or M1 if the Redline TBN is low again. Thank you for your input.

 

[bigjl]

Not sure how much it will help or if it makes that much of a difference but in the UK based site OPieoils the Volvo 2.4 non turbo is specced up for a 5w30 A1/B1 A5/B5, same specs as Ford engines.

Dino Castrol GTX is the only oil that I can find that would come up to A3/B3 and is the cheapest Castrol you can get in the UK, I wouldn't put something of that spec anywhere near a nice car like a 2007 Volvo.

In the UK anyway it does seem that since Volvo started working with Ford in a big way a lot of the Volvo's have same specs as Ford.

I think nearly every newish Ford runs 5w30 A1/B1 A5/B5.

Opieoils does list Redline for the your Volvo though, but it only carries US specs and not sure how they relate to ACEA.

Note, OPieoils is not a forum, though one of the staff there posts up on several forums as oilguy or similar, and they basically retail oil, and the Amsoil and Redline isn't cheap, £54 plus postage for 5 quarts of Redline 5w30!

Castrol Magnatec 5w30 A1/B1 A5/B5 is under £25 for four litres at Costco my Volvo V50 diesel has been using this since I bought it last year. A sale in Halfords had this oil up for £17.50.