With all due respect to HPL, it's no doubt an amazing oil, but I know of at least one case where VRP stopped oil burning but HPL didn't. Maybe same engine @mt23 is talking about here.
Valvoline Restore and Protect, HPL, for an old 3.5 Ecoboost
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These are "anecdotes", and hugely unscientific. I don't know the backstory on that one, but we have no idea what would have happened if HPL was used longer and VRP wasn't. Would the oil burning have stopped with a little longer HPL usage? Etc etc.
Take these stories with a grain of salt; not because the poster is lying or trying to deceive, but because there is no scientific process to draw conclusions from.
What do we know, for certain? Both oils seem to end up putting lots of carbon/crud in the filter. So we know they both clean. From HPL's perspective, their motor oil cleans so well they have a dedicated cleaner product to be used first which cleans less well, so as not to overwhelm the filter.
You think 80,000 miles on HPL wasn't enough? That's how many he put on HPL before fixing his oil consumption with VRP.
Anecdotes are all we have man (besides certifications). No one is doing RCTs on oil consumption improvement. I know it's an n of 1, but it's what we've got.
We know for certain that VRP cleans varnish and sludge. We know it restores piston rings to original cleanliness.
If I were OP, I don't really see the downside in trying VRP. It's odd to still be filling up filters with crud after so many miles.
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Depends on the state of the engine.
That's not the issue. Both VRP and HPL clean, we've seen anecdotes from both oils.
So lets think.... HPL is doing its job obviously cleaning as the crud is in the filter, and you find that odd?
The downside in trying VRP is that the rest of the oil is not nearly up to par with HPL when it comes to base stocks and additives.
Is the credit for achieving the goal due to the quarterback who moved the team 90 yards in the air in 3 plays, or to the fullback who waltzed in the final yard?
All I’ve got to say is, I’ve never seen a fullback as the highest paid player on the team…
We only know for certain that VRP can clean rings back to 100% because it was tested thoroughly in an engine lab. Speculation and drawing false conclusions are what you're doing.
HPL/Amsoil SS/RL etc. should run clean and keep engines very clean even over longer intervals. That's the benefit they offer. In theory you shouldn't get deposits using those oils unless pushed too far.
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Carlostrece
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I think 5w20 or 5w30 VRP would be fine.
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How many times do we need to type this out?
We know for certain that HPL cleans, because the crud ends up in the filter. Not speculation, not false conclusions. As for the "100%" specifically, no reason to think that this is unique to VRP; cleaning is a process over time, if something is effective at cleaning carbon and varnish, then the element of time (duration) brings it to 100%. Again, this isn't a mild cleaning process, we know this because of how HPL positions/markets their oil over their mild cleaner...
...and reread the OP's post:
Can you show me a piston photo? I'm not saying it can't, but finding carbon in an oil filter isn't 100% proof of anything that there is carbon in your oil filter. You're speculating it's coming from pistons and speculating it can clean them back to factory clean. We've seen photos from one engine, in one vehicle and it was a borescope.How many times do we need to type this out?
We know for certain that HPL cleans, because the crud ends up in the filter. Not speculation, not false conclusions. As for the "100%" specifically, no reason to think that this is unique to VRP; cleaning is a process over time, if something is effective at cleaning carbon and varnish, then the element of time (duration) brings it to 100%. Again, this isn't a mild cleaning process, we know this because of how HPL positions/markets their oil over their mild cleaner...
...and reread the OP's post:
Valvoline's lead tech worked for Infineum for 16 years and said he's never seen an oil clean piston deposits. That's what made me skeptical in addition to others running premium synthetics and ending up with oil consumption as the vehicle ages.
RL also told me their oil doesn't clean but runs clean, which is another thing that made me think maybe these oils can't remove that type of deposit. The detergents will clean up sludge but piston deposits are nearly impossible to reverse. That is why I'm skeptical.
Now it's possible HPL can because oils aren't really designed to clean, but keep clean. Nor do companies even test for this. However HPL is unique in that's very highly additized and uses AN/V. But without knowing the quantity it takes to clean vs run clean it's really a guess.
“What we didn’t know was before the testing that it would remove and reverse the process – that is something you can’t predict by modeling. Restore and Protect removed engine deposits. I had never seen anything like it before, and I have eight years at Valvoline and 16 years at a company that makes the additives used in oil formulation.”
This is evidence and was 1 3k mile drain:
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Pretty funny thread, what is even funnier is people glazing over HPL so bad that the same claims they are downplaying about those having success with VRP as not being evidence are the same "evidence" they are attempting to use to praise HPL.
VRP User: VRP has slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out a lot of deposits/sludge.
HPL Fan Boy: That is not evidence of it working, VRP is a downgrade.
HPL Fan Boy: HPL slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out deposits/sludge it is so great, the best oil to ever exist
Post removal/ban incoming, how dare I call anything out about HPL fanboys.
VRP User: VRP has slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out a lot of deposits/sludge.
HPL Fan Boy: That is not evidence of it working, VRP is a downgrade.
HPL Fan Boy: HPL slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out deposits/sludge it is so great, the best oil to ever exist
Post removal/ban incoming, how dare I call anything out about HPL fanboys.
I'm not saying VRP is better than HPL overall. They're nothing alike. One is an GF-7/SQ oil and one is FS built for severe use. HPL is a top tier oil and if you use a good oil from the start and don't go too far on drains you won't need VRP. But I think VRP is very unique and has a unique cleaning ability. I'm not as convinced that the oils containing ester can clean piston deposits to the level VRP can if at all.
Different engine.
to be fully transparent I believe the 80,000 miles of HPL engine with small oil control rings difficult to clean was on the cusp of heavier oil consumption when I started HPL. (The consumption rate was increasing steadily previously). HPL held it at bay for quite a while. I've experienced more instances of using HPL in this engine series and having oil consumption improve, one instance changing from 1 quart per 6,000 to 1/2 quart per 10,000.
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This is what you're not understanding: HPL is designed to clean. It's not just a "run clean" oil, it actively cleans.
I'm not going to argue this for yet another day, lets just say I think some of you can't see the forest for the trees
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Pretty funny thread, what is even funnier is people glazing over HPL so bad that the same claims they are downplaying about those having success with VRP as not being evidence are the same "evidence" they are attempting to use to praise HPL.
VRP User: VRP has slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out a lot of deposits/sludge.
HPL Fan Boy: That is not evidence of it working, VRP is a downgrade.
HPL Fan Boy: HPL slowed my oil consumption and has cleaned out deposits/sludge it is so great, the best oil to ever exist
Post removal/ban incoming, how dare I call anything out about HPL fanboys.
That's not what's happening. It's a lot easier to say "this product is working, I see the result in my filter", than it is to say "I ran product X for some time than ran product Y and I'm going to say conclusively that product Y is the reason my engine is clean".
If you get banned its not because you said anything wrong per se, its because your tone and intent is disrespectful.
We know oils can clean, to a limited degree. Most clean sludge but can't clean varnish or piston deposits. That's why this is a bit different.This is what you're not understanding: HPL is designed to clean. It's not just a "run clean" oil, it actively cleans.
I'm not going to argue this for yet another day, lets just say I think some of you can't see the forest for the trees
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This is from the engine I'm rebuilding that had heavy varnish elsewhere and 50,000 miles of HPL. Cant ask for much cleaner than this. I have no doubt HPL will do ring cleaning and keep already clean rings clean. How effective at small difficult to clean rings I would like to understand better.
Looks great. Looks like a new piston. Thanks for sharing.
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I really am confused now (doesn't take much I know
)Bear with me. Is this image after 50K with HPL only (no VRP), because elsewhere you said something about 50K and then using VRP after that.
Sorry I can be confusing in word choice sometimes. This is after 50k of HPL, no VRP. Elsewhere was referring to a different engine.I really am confused now (doesn't take much I know
Bear with me. Is this image after 50K with HPL only (no VRP), because elsewhere you said something about 50K and then using VRP after that.
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