Using oil in newer fords.

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.


We all know if something is consuming that much oil, something has gone wrong. 1 quart per 5K miles isnt bad, but I dont think that should be the case with such a new car, I wouldnt be happy with such consumption if that was my rig.


O I would be annoyed too. My '14 went through a quart in the first 1k miles and has not burned anything measurable since. There is hardly any oil in my catch can when I check it once a month or so.

 

[racin4ds]

I have a 01 F150 with the 5.4 and 216,000 miles on it, it doesn't use anywhere close to a qt at 5000 miles! Your vehicles are both too new to be using that much oil...

Heck even my little Civic with 180k on it and the old D series motor thats known for using oil doesn't use a qt per OCI.

Did you buy both cars new? I bet you babied them during break in didn't you? I am a FIRM believer that you run em hard, especially during break in and I've built MANY motors from OEM hondas to $40k BMW race engines. Never have I had one use that much oil!

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: hemitruck
this is a known issue on 08 wranglers. there was an assembly problem at the factory. if they have owned since new they have a lifetime drivetrain warranty. search jeepforum.com for this issue.


They did have a lifetime warranty. The consumption was "normal" according to different Chrysler / Jeep dealers. I really feel bad for whomever bought it after they traded it. Probably blew the engine up within 3000 miles if they didn't check oil often.

Like I said, if it was mine, I would have blown it up and refilled it with waste oil - blown engine full of oil would probably work for replacement.

The good news is, my parents will never buy another Chrysler / Dodge / Jeep product ever again. 30 years of Jeep ownership ended by Chrysler's poor quality.

 

[Huie83]

My 2013 Explorer with the 3.5 V6 uses some oil, 1/2-3/4 Qt every 5K miles or so. Not excessive in my book but also my first engine that uses oil in between changes. I've had to get back in the habit of checking the level periodically. It's my wife's SUV and she's had a track record of running cars dry from not checking the level LOL.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.


I've seen that but don't agree. With Ford and others spec'ing 10k oil changes, that would be 10 quarts of oil per oil change. At that point, why change it at all, just slap a filter on it and keep going!

That being said, the SHO uses no oil in 7k miles. The wife's Escape leaks or burns about a quart every 2500 miles or so, and not sure on the F150.

 

[SteveSRT8]

At this time there's only two oldies in our fleet.

One is my personal Silverado, 130k miles and never uses a drop between changes. OLM on this vehicle has gone to well beyond 10k miles many times.

The other is one of our service vans. 170k miles on an 06 chassis and almost 4000 hours of stationary operation. It also does not use oil until the last 10% of OLM, I think it is related to fuel dilution as we've seen this before. OLM typically triggers around 4k miles or so due to stationary ops.

My Chrysler is from a family of 'known oil burners' and has never used a drop even at track days with 300 degree oil temps.

 

[strat81]

It's not just Fords. My GM 5.3L (no DOD/AFM) burns a quart every 1,500 miles or so. I've tried VML 5w30 and M1 0W-40. Both are consumed. No blue smoke, no leaks.

 

[jrustles]

Break em in hard. It's the only way to prevent oil consumption. I have had 100% success on the relatively small sample of new and rebuilt engines that have passed through my hands since learning that gem from the 'motoman'

If it scares you that much to execute such unsanctioned procedures, then maybe you need the oil consumption

I know a manufacturer will revise their "normal consumption" values well into the "absurd" range, just because they (some) will never tell you to drive a new engine hard, so they'll sanction outrageous rates of consumption instead- and you gotta take it. Bottom line, that's not how I live my life, personally, allowing others to intellectually process matters for me to then feed me their 'output' that I must accept and believe beyond any doubt. LOL no way.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: JCM35
I have a 2010 fusion 3.0 v6 and a 2013 mustang v6. Both need a quart at around 5 thousand regardless of oil used. Have used edge ti , m1 ep, and pop all in 5w20 in the fusion. Used ultra, black bottle edge, and currently vsp in the stang, all in 5w20. I know engines can use some oil but I check it and no usage, check it right around 5 grand and boom, needs exactly a quart. The only oil that didn't use was in the first run of black bottled edge in the stang. Is this the new sn rating oils burning off faster or just not a bug deal regardless?


That's not uncommon for oil consumption to increase towards the tail end of an OCI - I don't know exactly why that seems to be, but of course have a few theories.

 

[eddy21]

The word I got from Ford Rep was 1,500 mi per /QT

 

[Kuato]

I have a 2010 fusion 3.0 v6 and a 2013 mustang v6. Both need a quart at around 5 thousand regardless of oil used. Have used edge ti , m1 ep, and pop all in 5w20 in the fusion. Used ultra, black bottle edge, and currently vsp in the stang, all in 5w20. I know engines can use some oil but I check it and no usage, check it right around 5 grand and boom, needs exactly a quart. The only oil that didn't use was in the first run of black bottled edge in the stang. Is this the new sn rating oils burning off faster or just not a bug deal regardless? [/quote

I've had more than one vehicle that did the same; no usage for 4000 or so, then down at quart at 5k...chalked it up to the oil changing chemistry at about that point. Another vehicle would not use a drop, unless you took it on the highway beyond a certain speed, then it would use a quart every 2k or so.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.

If they thought that was normal they would have included an oil tank.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.

If they thought that was normal they would have included an oil tank.


Absolutely.

I would likely need to get rid of a huge consumer like that if it was not correctable somehow.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.

If they thought that was normal they would have included an oil tank.


Why are manufacturers even sanctioning these levels of consumption?

Well, imagine a customer drive 3-4K with said consumption and the oil light comes on and the engine gets poached- guess who's left holding the bag-- the owner.
"Whelp, you ran it out of oil, so it's your fault."
"But the thing burns oil like crazy!"
"That's too bad, 1qt/1000mi is within specification"

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Per Ford 1 quart per 1,000 miles is normal oil consumption.

If they thought that was normal they would have included an oil tank.


Why are manufacturers even sanctioning these levels of consumption?

Well, imagine a customer drive 3-4K with said consumption and the oil light comes on and the engine gets poached- guess who's left holding the bag-- the owner.
"Whelp, you ran it out of oil, so it's your fault."
"But the thing burns oil like crazy!"
"That's too bad, 1qt/1000mi is within specification"

Low tension rings became the standard and unless a new engine is broken in hard the engine will consume oil because the rings aren't seated properly and the oem's are aware of this so they sanction such high consumption levels because they know its gonna happen and this disclaimer frees them from having to fix.
Jmo.

 

[TrevorS]

Will these high rates of consumption lead to more emission system warranty claims?

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Kuato

Another vehicle would not use a drop, unless you took it on the highway beyond a certain speed, then it would use a quart every 2k or so.


Ditto. Top limited speed in one of mine does that. The others have limiters that are harder to reach.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Will these high rates of consumption lead to more emission system warranty claims?


Low tension rings are the entire reason for the SN and lowered zddp in engine oils.
Let's consider that high tension rings don't start burning oil til 200k miles for example. By that point the emissions system is likely nearly shot anyways. So oil burning with high phos isn't as big a deal since the warranty period is long past so the oem isn't on the hook for replacement,so a high zddp oil is fine.
Low tension rings may not seat properly so the engine is an oil burner right off the bat,so in order to free themselves of having to replace the emissions equipment during the warranty period the oem inform the API that phos needs to be reduced so the emissions system lasts beyond the warranty period so zddp is lowered to compensate.
Now even though oil consumption is more common now I can say without a doubt I've not owned an engine that consumed any measurable amount of oil however I put my foot into the throttle pretty often which will improve ring seal.
I use mos2 and ceratec as well but I cannot say if either of these products help in that regard.
I broke in my 106ci engine on my Harley very hard on the highway. I rode 50 miles running in third going full throttle then completely off and let the engine brake. I then changed the oil,and cut open the filter and there were no metallic bits in the oil nor the filter.
And that bike runs very hot yet doesn't consume any oil whatsoever.
Break in is more important now than it ever has been in my opinion.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Will these high rates of consumption lead to more emission system warranty claims?


Low tension rings are the entire reason for the SN and lowered zddp in engine oils.
Let's consider that high tension rings don't start burning oil til 200k miles for example. By that point the emissions system is likely nearly shot anyways. So oil burning with high phos isn't as big a deal since the warranty period is long past so the oem isn't on the hook for replacement,so a high zddp oil is fine.
Low tension rings may not seat properly so the engine is an oil burner right off the bat,so in order to free themselves of having to replace the emissions equipment during the warranty period the oem inform the API that phos needs to be reduced so the emissions system lasts beyond the warranty period so zddp is lowered to compensate.
Now even though oil consumption is more common now I can say without a doubt I've not owned an engine that consumed any measurable amount of oil however I put my foot into the throttle pretty often which will improve ring seal.
I use mos2 and ceratec as well but I cannot say if either of these products help in that regard.
I broke in my 106ci engine on my Harley very hard on the highway. I rode 50 miles running in third going full throttle then completely off and let the engine brake. I then changed the oil,and cut open the filter and there were no metallic bits in the oil nor the filter.
And that bike runs very hot yet doesn't consume any oil whatsoever.
Break in is more important now than it ever has been in my opinion.


But OEM's have been using low tension rings since the 80's.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: jrustles

Why are manufacturers even sanctioning these levels of consumption?

Well, imagine a customer drive 3-4K with said consumption and the oil light comes on and the engine gets poached- guess who's left holding the bag-- the owner.
"Whelp, you ran it out of oil, so it's your fault."
"But the thing burns oil like crazy!"
"That's too bad, 1qt/1000mi is within specification"

Imagine if they set the bar higher how many more warranty claims they'd have to make good on. LOL BTW the consumption rate is always changing. Typically a good service writer will ask how much oil a customer is using when they complain. 1,000/qt. can easily become 800 miles, or even 600, depending on what the customer says. EG: A customer tells the service writer they use a qt. of oil every 800 miles. Odds are a good service writer will tell them 600 miles is OK. Especially while under warranty, unless oil is leaking, then they'll address it, or consumption reaches a qt. every 500 miles. Even then it depends.