Using gravity to store surplus renewable electricity

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Alternative searches are fine. But many don’t make sense, especially when they won’t attract private investment to get those technologies off the ground. Anything that requires taxpayer dollars to be feasible should be an immediate nonstarter.
 
The energy density of these schemes is atrocious.
As are nearly all alternatives compared to hydrocarbon, hydroelectric, and nuclear. Engineers of each of those technologies didn’t end up on those choices because they were the cheapest or easiest to implement. It was because of the massive energy potential and it being well-suited to transportation & generation schemes.
 
Which private investment led to nuclear reactors? Just asking for a friend..... lol j/k

Suggesting something needs to be privately funded and I assume economically feasible out of the gate ignores a lot of transformative technologies developed with "help" Transistors being a critical one. JMO.
 
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It sounds weird though I see how they got here. If renewables make more than we can use it’s wasted unless we have another method to store it. This is not a solution I’d expect but it seems cool to me.
 
Which private investment led to nuclear reactors? Just asking for a friend..... lol
Remove governmental imposed barriers to entry to include not in my backyard from the same people that want fossil fuels gone- and you will see huge private investments in nuclear power, and likely huge holistic private investment in electric vehicle charging centers.
 
Which private investment led to nuclear reactors? Just asking for a friend..... lol j/k

Suggesting something needs to be privately funded and I assume economically feasible out of the gate ignores a lot of transformative technologies developed with "help" Transistors being a critical one. JMO.
Nukes are a little it different, because their initial funding was all government; they ended up in submarines, and then the companies who worked with government on their development saw the potential and went to take them public.

But, other than naval nuclear power transitioning to land-based reactors, and interstate highways (both of which started what, late 50’s?) can you name even just one “alternative” to privately developed technologies that have been a net positive to the people since that time? I can’t really think of any.

On the flipside, especially since 2008, there are literally hundreds of “great ideas” that have received hundreds of millions of dollars with zero input from the people footing the bill, and essentially every single one has gone up in flames… while the principals of those failed companies became very rich. THAT’s what I am talking about here.
 
As are nearly all alternatives compared to hydrocarbon, hydroelectric, and nuclear. Engineers of each of those technologies didn’t end up on those choices because they were the cheapest or easiest to implement. It was because of the massive energy potential and it being well-suited to transportation & generation schemes.
This massive structure is rated for 25MW and 100MWh, no price figure that I can see, it's the pilot in China:
1701638654813.jpg


Ontario is currently consuming 17,828MW, 478MW of grid-tied solar is producing 18MW and our 5,000MW wind fleet is producing 1,174MW (23% capacity). So, assuming we had 25,000MW of wind, which would cost $58 billion dollars (the same as our entire nuclear fleet, inflation adjusted), it would currently be producing 5,750MW, so we'd need 12,078MW to make up the deficit (assuming no legacy nuclear and hydro, because: "Renewables"), which is 483 of the above, but that would only provide 4 hours of electricity.

Let's assume we had a ridiculous amount of solar too, ignoring the cost, it's effectively dark now at 4:30PM and we won't see meaningful solar output until 9 or 10AM, so 17 to 18 hours from now, that's (assuming flat demand, gotta charge those EV's...) 205,326-217,404MWh, or about 2,200 of these 100MWh storage units.

Sounds totally viable...
 
It sounds weird though I see how they got here. If renewables make more than we can use it’s wasted unless we have another method to store it. This is not a solution I’d expect but it seems cool to me.
The situation you describe is an absolute pipe dream for anyone currently old enough to post on BITOG. We will never see those conditions exist during our lifetimes where “renewables” generate more than the current ~15PW usage of the planet; maybe never, and certainly not at a cost that challenges the current big 3 sources: hydroelectric, hydrocarbon, and nuclear.
 
This massive structure is rated for 25MW and 100MWh, no price figure that I can see, it's the pilot in China:View attachment 191395

Ontario is currently consuming 17,828MW, 478MW of grid-tied solar is producing 18MW and our 5,000MW wind fleet is producing 1,174MW (23% capacity). So, assuming we had 25,000MW of wind, which would cost $58 billion dollars (the same as our entire nuclear fleet, inflation adjusted), it would currently be producing 5,750MW, so we'd need 12,078MW to make up the deficit (assuming no legacy nuclear and hydro, because: "Renewables"), which is 483 of the above, but that would only provide 4 hours of electricity.

Let's assume we had a ridiculous amount of solar too, ignoring the cost, it's effectively dark now at 4:30PM and we won't see meaningful solar output until 9 or 10AM, so 17 to 18 hours from now, that's (assuming flat demand, gotta charge those EV's...) 205,326-217,404MWh, or about 2,200 of these 100MWh storage units.

Sounds totally viable...
It’s clear to me that the people pushing these projects have no grip of physics, math, or both; or, it’s purely a money-grabbing scheme they know will fail, and then they will claim they need even more control and money to “make it work”. It’s the same sad story we hear from communal nuts… “well, we haven’t ever been able to try the REAL methods we need” even though every single trial has resulted in much suffering and destruction. This is stuff is the same path.
 
The situation you describe is an absolute pipe dream for anyone currently old enough to post on BITOG. We will never see those conditions exist during our lifetimes where “renewables” generate more than the current ~15PW usage of the planet; maybe never, and certainly not at a cost that challenges the current big 3 sources: hydroelectric, hydrocarbon, and nuclear.
Yep, as soon as VRE installed capacity hits the wall of self-cannibalization, building more capacity stalls, look at California, when they removed the lucrative NEM program in favour of paying people market value for the electricity, uptake collapsed:

1701639755833.jpg
 
There's a project somewhere that pumps water uphill to a reservoir to use energy then releases it through turbines to get it back. One needs the right geography for it to be economically viable.
 
There's a project somewhere that pumps water uphill to a reservoir to use energy then releases it through turbines to get it back. One needs the right geography for it to be economically viable.
There are several of those, the largest in North America is Raccoon Mountain, owned and operated by TVA, which is used to compliment their nuclear assets.
 
Nukes are a little it different, because their initial funding was all government; they ended up in submarines, and then the companies who worked with government on their development saw the potential and went to take them public.

But, other than naval nuclear power transitioning to land-based reactors, and interstate highways (both of which started what, late 50’s?) can you name even just one “alternative” to privately developed technologies that have been a net positive to the people since that time? I can’t really think of any.

On the flipside, especially since 2008, there are literally hundreds of “great ideas” that have received hundreds of millions of dollars with zero input from the people footing the bill, and essentially every single one has gone up in flames… while the principals of those failed companies became very rich. THAT’s what I am talking about here.

Are we serious?

Things like the ARPANET (you know, the predecessor to todays internet that allows you to even participate on this board), GPS, modern Hydrofracking (which unlocked enormous reserves of petroleum and gas) quickly come to mind off hand that had their start as government projects or were funded that way...

I assume since you included the interstate highway your intent was not to limit it to new energy sources...
 
Are we serious?

Things like the ARPANET (you know, the predecessor to todays internet that allows you to even participate on this board), GPS, modern Hydrofracking (which unlocked enormous reserves of petroleum and gas) quickly come to mind off hand that had their start as government projects or were funded that way...

I assume since you included the interstate highway your intent was not to limit it to new energy sources...
Don't forget the NASA space programs and all the technological advances they spawned into the general economy including digital computer chips.
 
Big Creek uses gravity to store energy by pumping water from a lower lake to an upper lake when power demand is low.
 
Are we serious?

Things like the ARPANET (you know, the predecessor to todays internet that allows you to even participate on this board), GPS, modern Hydrofracking (which unlocked enormous reserves of petroleum and gas) quickly come to mind off hand that had their start as government projects or were funded that way...

I assume since you included the interstate highway your intent was not to limit it to new energy sources...
There are things that start in the military, to give the country better capabilities than its enemies (and sometimes friends too). Then, after the military has developed it for THEIR use and benefit, it sometimes filters down to the civilian markets (thermal and night vision are two more). That’s completely different than the government forking out money for untested, civilian-first technologies that are competing against already-existing, well-established technologies. I’m referring to wind and solar mainly. There’s ZERO military advantage to those technologies. They are developed to force people from more abundant, more efficient energy sources.

Sure, the internet, GPS, and some other previously military-only technologies have made improvements in modern life. But renewables don’t actually benefit anyone except shareholders; consumers must give up convenience and availability in this new scheme… forcing 100% adoption of periodic energy sources is pure insanity.

“Hey, the wind farms aren’t spinning, and the solar farm is down due to the blizzard. We don’t have enough electrical or natural gas to heat everyone’s houses anymore. Our bad.” That’s a whole lot different than saying “GPS is down, use an atlas”, or “Internet is down. Go buy a newspaper.”

Not arguing at you, but at the idea that accepting these intentional limitations and downfalls in the name of “the greater good”. 👍🏻
 
There's a project somewhere that pumps water uphill to a reservoir to use energy then releases it through turbines to get it back. One needs the right geography for it to be economically viable.

We have the Taum Sauk Reservoir in Missouri. It overtopped the wall when some float switches failed and it kept filling. Luckily nobody died.

 
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