I think the manufacturers state don't use any additive EXCEPT "our (approved) additives." (e.g., GM has limited use additives). Mmmm, you could also go strictly by the manufacturer's sticker in the door which indicates what air pressure you should use in your Ford Explorer with its Firestone Tires. (Ford's under-pressure guidelines may be partially responsible for the accidents). Don't mean to flame, but car makers, oil refiners, et al, are most concerned with their best legal/profit interests, not necessarily ours. When you say "might change the chemistry for the worse," that is probably a true evaluation of the manufacturers' fear of the unknown. On the other hand, I can't think of a single other product that uses more different parts and chemicals - from different suppliers - that an American-marketed vehicle. So, its a "selective" fear.
Using additives goes against manufacturer's recommendations!
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I think that the blanket statement "not to use any additivies" has resulted because there are so many "snake oil" additives that are or may be harmfull on the market. All manufactures I'm aware off have their own approved additives for special problems such as injector or fuel system cleaner.
I have taken 3 cars and a truck past 10 years and 100K and better with very few problems, mostly sticking to the owners manual. OK, I am no longer running SE oil in the truck. My 02 Cavalier, 35K has had nothing at all other than gas, air, oil, and filters, except a rotor turned, which it needs again. Now that it is out of warranty, I may be doing a little more.
I wish I had a source of info on car care I trusted as much as I do on dog care by the service dog schools I volunteer for. Since it costs about as much to raise and train a new service dog as to buy a new car, I think I can trust what they tell me about caring for their dogs. Note, they say a commercial, dry, dog food and no additives.
I don't know of anybody that shares the same concern I do about making my car last forever for the least amount of time and money. The manufacturer, the dealer, parts stores, mechanics, net hobbyists, Consumer Reports, Ralph Nader, the tooth fairy? Who is in a position to know and has every incentive to give me that straight info? Even those in a position to know, fleet operators, have very different operating conditions. The right oil for my cold starts and short trips may not be the same as some police department in Georgia. I don't trust the EPA either, but figure their reported negative results for additives is fairly good data.
I wish I had a source of info on car care I trusted as much as I do on dog care by the service dog schools I volunteer for. Since it costs about as much to raise and train a new service dog as to buy a new car, I think I can trust what they tell me about caring for their dogs. Note, they say a commercial, dry, dog food and no additives.
I don't know of anybody that shares the same concern I do about making my car last forever for the least amount of time and money. The manufacturer, the dealer, parts stores, mechanics, net hobbyists, Consumer Reports, Ralph Nader, the tooth fairy? Who is in a position to know and has every incentive to give me that straight info? Even those in a position to know, fleet operators, have very different operating conditions. The right oil for my cold starts and short trips may not be the same as some police department in Georgia. I don't trust the EPA either, but figure their reported negative results for additives is fairly good data.
I think that almost all oil supplements and 'engine treatments' are useless or in some cases even bad for an engine. But there are a few that really do seem to work. This web site is a really useful source for those that actually work. I think the ones that work are Auto-RX, Lube Control, Neutra that can be used to clean also, and Schaeffer's #132. I still believe some in Lubegard. And beyond that-forget it.
The manufacturers all say not to use additives because of legal concerns. They are aware that most additives do not do as they say and can actually cause more harm than good. They do not want to promote additives because they are afraid of the legal consequences pure and simple. If the manufacturers didn't want you to use additives, why do many of them sell them?
There are many additives that are very bad for your engine. There are THOUSANDS of idiots out there who blindly use them and swear they are doing good. Manufacturers know this and do not want to pay for their stupidity. Even the manual for my Jeep 4.0 says not to use additives. If there was ever a motor that could handle additives, it would be this one! You could put a hand full of metal shaving in the oil and disconnect the oil filter and probably not have any problems!
Where are all of the additive supporters? I want some heated discussion!
Mystic, based on this site, my "short list" of possible good additives mirrors yours - maybe add fuel power?
I asked this question to Lubegard and they replied about the same as many of you - there are too many bad snake oils out there for car companies to suggest additive use (except, of course, Lubegard really is good, according to them).
So, why are these several products recommended at this site over others? Has some bias entered into this site early on that these products have been "marketed" into our subconscience as better than over the counter products. Just wondering.
I also worry if something like Fuel Power (or anything) might do some kind of damage over the long course - 200K.
Mystic, based on this site, my "short list" of possible good additives mirrors yours - maybe add fuel power?
I asked this question to Lubegard and they replied about the same as many of you - there are too many bad snake oils out there for car companies to suggest additive use (except, of course, Lubegard really is good, according to them).
So, why are these several products recommended at this site over others? Has some bias entered into this site early on that these products have been "marketed" into our subconscience as better than over the counter products. Just wondering.
I also worry if something like Fuel Power (or anything) might do some kind of damage over the long course - 200K.
No offense to fuel power, but I'm not ready to jump on its band wagon yet. I maybe naive, but it seems like it is a "homemade" product without alot of independant research. I think overall the schaeffer and redline products are good and well tested. BMW has tested redine SI-2 and given its stamp of approval. If that product wasn't good BMW would never have given it 2 thumbs up.
Just stirring up the pot huh? What application and then we can discuss additive.
I think I've learned from the school of hard knocks. I used all the ones banned by the FCC. Now I use additives to solve specific problems. ARX helped with the seals in my minivan. B-12 cleaned out my lawnmower with sticky valves today, going to use the Mola-brew in may cars in the future (as soon as I can find someone to sell me some Neutra - 3 phone calls and 2 emails later, still hoping
).
But it's obvious, there is limited need for additives to well-formulated oils of today. So no arguement there.
I think I've learned from the school of hard knocks. I used all the ones banned by the FCC. Now I use additives to solve specific problems. ARX helped with the seals in my minivan. B-12 cleaned out my lawnmower with sticky valves today, going to use the Mola-brew in may cars in the future (as soon as I can find someone to sell me some Neutra - 3 phone calls and 2 emails later, still hoping
But it's obvious, there is limited need for additives to well-formulated oils of today. So no arguement there.
doitmyself, Automakers tell us not to use additives because MANY will harm your car and the best way to cover their butts is to just tell consumers not to use them.
FP and LC have been around for over 50 years with never one complaint. The products on this site have been proven to work by people who know more than the average person.
FP and LC have been around for over 50 years with never one complaint. The products on this site have been proven to work by people who know more than the average person.
O.K. you guys, prove to me why additives to any of the autos fluids are good.
The manuals state clearly NOT to use any additives.
The logic is, if well engineered auto lubricants/fluids needed more additives, then the manufacturer would make them that way.
Or, adding anything to the lubricant/fluid might change the chemistry for the worse.
Teach me, O mighty ones!
The manuals state clearly NOT to use any additives.
The logic is, if well engineered auto lubricants/fluids needed more additives, then the manufacturer would make them that way.
Or, adding anything to the lubricant/fluid might change the chemistry for the worse.
Teach me, O mighty ones!
I don't like additives for the most part, as most are nothing but snake oil. But this forum has proven that some work very very well in many applications......such as LC, autorx, EP 132, etc.
Toyota said that conventional oil could be run for 7500 miles safely in the 2.2 and 3.0 engines made between 97 and 01. That has been proven to be false, and toyota has replaced many thousands of engines because of that recommendation.
Toyota said that conventional oil could be run for 7500 miles safely in the 2.2 and 3.0 engines made between 97 and 01. That has been proven to be false, and toyota has replaced many thousands of engines because of that recommendation.
doItYourself, I agree with many others. The recommendation NOT to use additives is mostly CYA on behalf of the auto makers. They can't be bothered to come up with an "approved" list updated every few months ... so they just say not to bother with any of them.
It also may discourage people from getting creative and trying to add their own cocktails ... then submitting warranty claims when injectors and/or emissions The manufacturers don't want the hassle of investigating this kind of nonsense.
As for why to use these products?
Simple: Gasoline in North America is usually good but can also be contaminated on purpose or by accident and I believe that spending about $20 per year on a few bottles of good additives is cheap insurance ... and can even prevent some of the clog-up I see in my co-workers car's emission systems. Cleaning up this mess can be $100-150+ or more if you have to replace sensors.
--- Bror Jace
It also may discourage people from getting creative and trying to add their own cocktails ... then submitting warranty claims when injectors and/or emissions The manufacturers don't want the hassle of investigating this kind of nonsense.
As for why to use these products?
Simple: Gasoline in North America is usually good but can also be contaminated on purpose or by accident and I believe that spending about $20 per year on a few bottles of good additives is cheap insurance ... and can even prevent some of the clog-up I see in my co-workers car's emission systems. Cleaning up this mess can be $100-150+ or more if you have to replace sensors.
--- Bror Jace
doitmyself, I did not mention Fuel Power because the discussion was mainly about oil additives I thought. But Fuel Power certainly could be added to the list of accepted additives.
The one additive that I believe in above all others is Auto-RX. My previous car had a seal leak and I tried Valvoline MaxLife (which is supposed to have a seal conditioner in it) and a oil supplement from an auto parts store to try to stop the leak. Neither worked, although my car did seem to run really well with the Valvoline MaxLife. I then did a cleaning with Auto-RX and the seal leak stopped. I can't prove that Auto-RX stopped the leak, but the leak did stop after the Auto-RX cleaning.
I like Neutra a lot as a fuel system cleaner. It really did seem to help. I like Schaeffer's products a lot. Neutra can be used to clean an engine, but I prefer to use Auto-RX in the oil.
Many people at this web site have tried Fuel Power and Lube Control as well and both seem to work.
I still have some faith in Lubegard. In a previous car I owned the power steering would squeal during cool mornings. I used the Lubegard power steering supplement and the squealing stopped. The first time I ever used Lubegard Engine supplement my engine seemed to immediately start running smoother. Some people here have tried Lubegard Engine Flush and they say it works really well. But I have never tried it.
I used to be interested in every new oil supplement that came out, although I only tried a few that I thought were safe. I am still interested but I think a person is better off just using the best conventional or synthetic oil they can find. And I believe in Auto-RX. If I was allowed to recommend only one oil supplement, it would be Auto-RX.
The one additive that I believe in above all others is Auto-RX. My previous car had a seal leak and I tried Valvoline MaxLife (which is supposed to have a seal conditioner in it) and a oil supplement from an auto parts store to try to stop the leak. Neither worked, although my car did seem to run really well with the Valvoline MaxLife. I then did a cleaning with Auto-RX and the seal leak stopped. I can't prove that Auto-RX stopped the leak, but the leak did stop after the Auto-RX cleaning.
I like Neutra a lot as a fuel system cleaner. It really did seem to help. I like Schaeffer's products a lot. Neutra can be used to clean an engine, but I prefer to use Auto-RX in the oil.
Many people at this web site have tried Fuel Power and Lube Control as well and both seem to work.
I still have some faith in Lubegard. In a previous car I owned the power steering would squeal during cool mornings. I used the Lubegard power steering supplement and the squealing stopped. The first time I ever used Lubegard Engine supplement my engine seemed to immediately start running smoother. Some people here have tried Lubegard Engine Flush and they say it works really well. But I have never tried it.
I used to be interested in every new oil supplement that came out, although I only tried a few that I thought were safe. I am still interested but I think a person is better off just using the best conventional or synthetic oil they can find. And I believe in Auto-RX. If I was allowed to recommend only one oil supplement, it would be Auto-RX.
I agree that oil and fuel additives are unnecessary for most vehicles, probably even the great majority of vehicles. But there are always exceptions. Some Toyota engines, for example, can sludge even when changed every 4K miles with Quaker State conventional oil (an actual example I read). And some fuel injectors can eventually clog even when brand name fuels are used. So these are just two real-world examples of how standard fuels/oils may not get the job done in a small minority of vehicles due to engineering quirks or deficiencies with those engines.
Personally, I use a quality fuel injection cleaner about once a year, and never use oil additives, although if I buy a used car I'll typically do a one-time engine (oil) flush using one of the aftermarket products.
Personally, I use a quality fuel injection cleaner about once a year, and never use oil additives, although if I buy a used car I'll typically do a one-time engine (oil) flush using one of the aftermarket products.
What makes some engines sludge? The only sludge problem I remember was the V-6 (cut down small block Chevy V-8) in my 81 Phoenix. I blame that on my 6 month OCI, but I was using QS.
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