Used Toyota Mirais, 90% depreciation (Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicle), ICE / BEV conversion candidate?

[Owen Lucas]

You can fine some pretty amazing deals on a used Mirai.

Too bad you can't use the car as many of the hydrogen filling stations are closing down and the open ones charge $200 a refill. I presume this is the reason for the massive discount.

I think a this vehicle can make an interesting project for a conversion to BEV or even ICE. Probably not in California but some other states might not care so much.

Installing a battery would be a technical challenge to have the vehicles systems communicate with one another. Might be better off designing your own system.

Going the ICE route might be easier. There have been a few swaps of gasoline engines into Teslas.

Used Toyota Mirai for Sale (with Photos) - CarGurus

Browse the best May 2024 deals on Toyota Mirai vehicles for sale. Save $3,601 this May on a Toyota Mirai on CarGurus.

www.cargurus.com

 

[JavierH19]

Yeah the fuel availability is the main issue but cost of running it is the real issue to me. The fuel cost per mile is worse than a diesel 3/4 ton if I'm not mistaken. The economics of these makes them impossible to justify.

 

[Bluestream]

Worth buying as a collectors item. I expect in the future thay may make a comeback?

 

[Owen Lucas]

Yeah the fuel availability is the main issue but cost of running it is the real issue to me. The fuel cost per mile is worse than a diesel 3/4 ton if I'm not mistaken. The economics of these makes them impossible to justify.

I am very tempted to buy the 22 and MacGuiver it a BEV. Unfortunately that would be very dangerous for me, which wire is for positive again, red, black, or orange? I'm sure this would be a nice project for any BITOG.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Please. That thing is butt ugly.

 

[Owen Lucas]

Please. That thing is butt ugly.

A face only a hyper-miler could love.

 

[cptbarkey]

$2-3k I'd bite as a repower project, but at that price, crush'em.

 

[earlyre]

yeah... there's a couple stations near me... super convenient to fill up...

 

[Owen Lucas]

yeah... there's a couple stations near me... super convenient to fill up...

View attachment 206310

There's a good likelihood that those remaining stations will disappear as well which is why I'm postulating the idea of using the vehicle as a platform for BEV or and ICE conversion.

 

[dubber09]

How much does it cost Bob Lazar to run his Corvette on hydrogen he makes at home?
If environmental impact was a priority then hydrogen cars would become reality, the agenda is to reduce car ownership base.

 

[y_p_w]

yeah... there's a couple stations near me... super convenient to fill up...

View attachment 206310

This (from the Dept of Energy) claims two private hydrogen fueling stations in Ohio.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ohio Transportation Data for Alternative Fuels and Vehicles

I think one of them might be the one on the Ohio State University campus that's used for campuses buses. Not sure since this says it was on loan for a year from Stark County back in 2017.

Hydrogen Fueling Station

This refuelling station is not available to the public!

car.osu.edu

It could be gone by now. What I've seen suggests that they've moved on to battery-electric buses.

Hydrogen is actually refined in Ohio as a byproduct of petroleum refining.

Lima Refinery - Hydrocarbons Technology

www.hydrocarbons-technology.com

Light naphtha passes through a C5 / C6 isomerisation unit, where the level of octane is increased. Heavy naphtha is directed to a cyclic catalytic reformer, where it is converted into a blend component with high octane. Hydrogen is produced as a co-product.​

 

[earlyre]

This (from the Dept of Energy) claims two private hydrogen fueling stations in Ohio.

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Ohio Transportation Data for Alternative Fuels and Vehicles

I think one of them might be the one on the Ohio State University campus that's used for campuses buses. Not sure since this says it was on loan for a year from Stark County back in 2017.

Hydrogen Fueling Station

This refuelling station is not available to the public!

car.osu.edu

It could be gone by now. What I've seen suggests that they've moved on to battery-electric buses.

Hydrogen is actually refined in Ohio as a byproduct of petroleum refining.

Lima Refinery - Hydrocarbons Technology

www.hydrocarbons-technology.com

Light naphtha passes through a C5 / C6 isomerisation unit, where the level of octane is increased. Heavy naphtha is directed to a cyclic catalytic reformer, where it is converted into a blend component with high octane. Hydrogen is produced as a co-product.​

the map i posted is actually from that same DOE site...

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

and yes, the Refinery here in town makes Hydrogen, but that doesn't mean they have a fill station i could use....

 

[Tomioka]

backyard engine swap with a cummins. i6 x15 if you have the ballz. It can be done later in the Future.

For being on an island they are probably one or two here with the only filling station is only at one dealership. And that's the only time I've spotted Futures is when they pull to the dealership and refuel.

Mirai means future in Japanese. Yeah.

 

[y_p_w]

the map i posted is actually from that same DOE site...

Alternative Fuels Data Center: Hydrogen Fueling Station Locations

and yes, the Refinery here in town makes Hydrogen, but that doesn't mean they have a fill station i could use....

I don't really see much of a future since the price is skyrocketing. Shell apparently had several that were fairly well distributed, but they exited the hydrogen business.

California’s Hydrogen Economy Dealt A Hammer Blow By Shell’s Exit

Energy giant Shell has called time on fueling hydrogen passenger cars in California, the only U.S. state where the technology may have a realistic chance of success.

www.forbes.com

 

[Ws6]

How much does it cost Bob Lazar to run his Corvette on hydrogen he makes at home?
If environmental impact was a priority then hydrogen cars would become reality, the agenda is to reduce car ownership base.

No its not. Not with this. Now if you cited infrastructure maintenance, I might agree, lol!

 

[PandaBear]

Sad to say but fuel cell cars are really disposable like that. In theory they should last "forever" like ICE car and unlike battery EV, but in reality hydrogen tank may need update, hydrogen may be expensive, refuel station may be difficult to find, and they may be difficult to repair / replacement part hard to find.

In the past I was told HFC is the stop gap until Lithium battery is ready for cars. Since BEV is already ahead, there really is no point in making hydrogen cars now. Remember hydrogen is a lousy energy storage device and you are better off burning natural gas for electricity to charge EV than cracking methane to hydrogen, or use electricity to charge EV than cracking H2O then use the H2 to generate electricity to run the car's electric motor.

 

[y_p_w]

Sad to say but fuel cell cars are really disposable like that. In theory they should last "forever" like ICE car and unlike battery EV, but in reality hydrogen tank may need update, hydrogen may be expensive, refuel station may be difficult to find, and they may be difficult to repair / replacement part hard to find.

In the past I was told HFC is the stop gap until Lithium battery is ready for cars. Since BEV is already ahead, there really is no point in making hydrogen cars now. Remember hydrogen is a lousy energy storage device and you are better off burning natural gas for electricity to charge EV than cracking methane to hydrogen, or use electricity to charge EV than cracking H2O then use the H2 to generate electricity to run the car's electric motor.

Hydrogen does have certain benefits. One is of the maximum energy per unit of weight for any chemical fuel. That's why it was used for rockets. But it's not terribly energy dense per unit volume, where most cars don't have terribly large fuel tanks.

It's not so bad with transit buses, where there's tyupically a lot of spare volume in the chassis for a large fuel tank. Of course liquid hydrogen comes with unique issues.

 

[Torrid]

I think there would be a heavy amount of cost converting it to BEV unless you had siginificant knowhow to do it personally. On top of that I think integration would be problematic and while I think it would be possible to do it especially with home charging, I think the ability to public charge would be nonexistent because of how communication happens with a charger. It's definitely not impossible, but likely not feasible cost wise and would be cheaper to just buy a Model 3.

 

[Owen Lucas]

I think there would be a heavy amount of cost converting it to BEV unless you had siginificant knowhow to do it personally. On top of that I think integration would be problematic and while I think it would be possible to do it especially with home charging, I think the ability to public charge would be nonexistent because of how communication happens with a charger. It's definitely not impossible, but likely not feasible cost wise and would be cheaper to just buy a Model 3.

Probably better off going the ICE route then.

 

[Astro14]

Seems to me that there are 3 problems.
1. Hydrogen source
2. Hydrogen storage
3. Hydrogen compression to refuel

If I had a lot more money, and a bit more time, I would be all in - who doesn’t want to build a solar panel powered hydrolysis set-up, then run their car for “Free”?

I’m looking at you @JeffKeryk - this challenge needs abundant electricity, and some technical capability. You just need to solve the compression part…