US high school students are dumb as a rock

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Well, yeah. What do you expect?

We as a country don't value education. Teachers are hideously undervalued, not respected, poorly trained, over paid


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What would you have teachers get paid? Public school teachers already get paid very little for what they do and the qualifications they hold. In NY, one has to have a master's degree in education, and a teaching certification in subject area at the minimum. Others need to hold current state license and governing professional organization certification in addition to those two. Plus the continuing education that is mandatory. Teachers have to pay for all of it out of pocket, with little hope for reimbursement.

And, asking teachers to accomplish miracles in over-crowded, decaying classrooms filled with electronics-addicted children who have the attention span of gnats is what's being done now. Clearly, it's not working too well.
 
Some kids have no concept of reality because the television was their 'parent' when they were growing up. I've met so many young adults that can't think realistically about what is happening around them, let alone 6 months into their future. So many kids have horse blinders on when it comes to making basic decisions in their life.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Some kids have no concept of reality because the television was their 'parent' when they were growing up. I've met so many young adults that can't think realistically about what is happening around them, let alone 6 months into their future. So many kids have horse blinders on when it comes to making basic decisions in their life.


So true.

I was around several young "whiz kids" out of college(Scientists & Engineers) in a breezeway last Summer during a storm and asked them: "Which way is North?" Knowing the answer. All 7-8 of them stood there, looking at each other, completely clueless.
 
Originally Posted By: sciphi
What would you have teachers get paid?

They should get paid in accordance what we can afford . Communities are struggling to pay the enormous legacy benefits and medical benefits.

You cold eliminate the Gangsta'NEA/AFT and get any number of better qualified teachers than the hacks (in many cases) in place now.

Let the school district advertise for teachers based on what the system can afford..not what the Unions demand (or strike) You would have long lines of qualified teachers applying.
 
Bet you wouldn't have that long line of qualified teachers, but please continue to dream on. From your comments I would say that is the reason we have half the new teachers quit by the their fifth year. They don't want to deal anymore with parents that only look at them has hacks or less than their janitor.
 
I blame NCLB.....

My 13 year old son who has Asperger's Disorder receives a "special" ed class for his speech and also occupational therapy.
He also has a class in learning to use photoshop...in the 8th grade.....why? I requested a health class but no....they put him in this class.

They don't even write in cursive!
 
Originally Posted By: Al
They should get paid in accordance what we can afford . Communities are struggling to pay the enormous legacy benefits and medical benefits.

You cold eliminate the Gangsta'NEA/AFT and get any number of better qualified teachers than the hacks (in many cases) in place now.

Let the school district advertise for terachers based on what the system can afford..not what the Unions demand (or strike) You would have long lines of qualified teachers applying.

If the system can't "afford" to pay teachers more than it does now, that's a problem.

I happen to think that, while teacher pay is low for what most teachers bring to the table and what the job entails, it is also more or less in line with what teachers actually deliver. That discrepancy is down to how they are trained and the inordinate pressures placed on them by administration, both of which are heavily influenced by lack of money (among many other things). Again, while we obviously don't want to throw money at a broken system, taking money out of it isn't the solution either.
 
Not overpaid, but not underpaid either. Extrapolate that out as teachers work 9 months/year and you get salaries in the $50K range.

So $40K with summers off is a pretty good gig.

Even the new teachers have a median salary of almost $35K. So $35K for 9 months work is like 46K+ for those who work 12 months/year.

One thing folks are not being taught are critical reasoning skills. The ones who have those skills realize that teachers are paid for 9 months work, not 12. When that's factored in, the salaries are quite good.

I believe some/most don't pay Social Security either. My wife is part of a school system as the school social worker. She pays no social security. She does pay Medicare, but not SSI. So that money goes into her retirement instead.

The benefits teachers get are far better than the average worker in the labor force.

So it's not a poverty profession by any stretch.
 
Originally Posted By: ddrumman2004
I blame NCLB.....

My 13 year old son who has Asperger's Disorder receives a "special" ed class for his speech and also occupational therapy.
He also has a class in learning to use photoshop...in the 8th grade.....why? I requested a health class but no....they put him in this class.

They don't even write in cursive!


Nothing wrong with not writing in cursive. To me, writing in printed letters is both easier/faster, and easier to read. I write my signature in cursive (if you can call it that, you would never get my name out of my signature), but other than that, everything I write is printed.
 
Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Are they this ADD? What kind of kids are "they" going to raise?


Kids much less able to compete with our kids in the job market and in life in general (those parents who don't tolerate ignorance and "addiction" to e-media and other "social media").
 
Originally Posted By: Nick R

Nothing wrong with not writing in cursive. To me, writing in printed letters is both easier/faster, and easier to read.

Exactly..we need to rid the school of things that are taught bc of habit. Spend that wasted time on Math.

Originally Posted By: tpitcher
Plus, a huge Pension to boot.

This
 
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Yes, nobody seems to care. I have discussions with young folks and it's as though they were taught next to nothing in school. Almost a total blank stare when I try and talk to them about real history or bring up our nations founding. They do however seem to know all about how the Native Americans were exploited, the Japanese-Americans interred during WW2, and Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement.

And that right there ought to show you what kind of agenda is driving education at all levels - college included.


Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Our curricula are archaic.

Actually, no. The "archaic" curriculum you speak of has been thrown out in favor of a more "progressive" (the educational establishments term not mine) education. And now we're seeing the results of 30+ years of progressive educational models.

Go back to the "archaic" curriculum in schools and you'll see much less of the rampant ignorance and vacant stares in kids.

If you want a better idea of where we took a huge wrong turn read E.D. Hirsch's Cultural Literacy and The Paidiea proposal by Adler.
 
javacontour said:
Not overpaid, but not underpaid either. Extrapolate that out as teachers work 9 months/year and you get salaries in the $50K range.

So $40K with summers off is a pretty good gig.

Even the new teachers have a median salary of almost $35K. So $35K for 9 months work is like 46K+ for those who work 12 months/year.

One thing folks are not being taught are critical reasoning skills. The ones who have those skills realize that teachers are paid for 9 months work, not 12. When that's factored in, the salaries are quite good.

I believe some/most don't pay Social Security either. My wife is part of a school system as the school social worker. She pays no social security. She does pay Medicare, but not SSI. So that money goes into her retirement instead.

The benefits teachers get are far better than the average worker in the labor force.

My wife does some sub work and we know several teachers and I know my wife has SS taken out of any check she gets. Maybe since your wife is a social worker it is different, but you probably need to be checking into it. She might be classified as a contract worker and be expected to pay that herself. She might also be hurting herself for future SS benefits. I like how people like to bring up the summer months off. They kind of tend to forget that most teachers are expected to continue to take more courses which usually occurs during the summer months and also they kind of forget about the hours spent grading and making lesson plans, parent teacher meetings and other events that they are expected many times to attend, but hey let's not let little things like that ruin a bad example. Oh and by the way if it is such a great gig with such great bennies how come the fallout rate for new teachers is so bad? Might want to walk a mile in their shoes.
 
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Last year my wife took home $26,400. Shes been teaching for 7 years and this will probably be her last. She loves teaching, and loves the kids, but the system is going down the drain FAST.

Parents are brutal. They yell and curse when they don't get their way. My wife comes home in tears oh about once or twice a month. The school does not stand up for the teachers at all. God forbid you offend someone, they'll try and get you fired.

Nobody cares anymore. The parents do not want you to teach and make their kids productive. They want you to babysit. That is the direction we are headed. Babysitters with a college degree.
 
that pretty well explains everything. The parents want a babysitter that will pass their kid and tell them how he is such a well behaved darling. Otherwise you are the devil because you actually expect the child to behave and the admin and especially the parents to back you. Part of the reason my wife doesn't even sub much anymore is because kids know the system and how far they can push it and not get in trouble, and how they can push the teacher and if she touches one of them then the teacher is at fault and not the kid.
 
The parents are expecting miracles from the teachers without any input themselves. The administrators are expecting miracles while coming up with ever more restrictive rules and figuring out new ways of chiseling away at teacher pay/benefits.

Teach kids how to think, and the knowledge will come. Teach them isolated facts to do well on tests, and get parrots. We're teaching facts now, not how to think.

Summers off are a joke. That's when most continuing education and training is done. Lesson planning for the upcoming year, familiarizing with new rules/regulations, and other requirements are expected to be completed then. Teachers just don't sit at home sipping margaritas all summer.
 
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