Could you go 12K+ miles between oil changes with it in your CX-9?
Under valve cover pictures - 2014 Dodge Durango 164,000 miles total, 52,000 miles on HPL HDEO 5w-20
- Thread starter wwillson
- Start date
Awesome results. I've always wanted to try HPL but we do so many short trips and a chunk of the years it's crazy cold. My concern is this being to harsh of an environment to really stretch the oils legs. Then again i only drive about 7500 miles a year so maybe the Premium PCEO 0w20 would be a good option for yearly OCI's.
Most likely could have done more.
At 7500 miles, it showed 3 points up on oxidation and nitration, viscosity was 8.1 cSt (VOA was 8.4). Fuel Dilution was ~4.5%. TBN was 7.81. And wear numbers were 1/2 what most users using a shelf option were seeing with intervals half as long!
So I have little doubt it would easily have been capable of intervals in excess of 12K in that application.
For perspective, the factory 5W-30 was 8.0 cSt @ 200 miles…
Exemplary oil, exemplary results. Especially considering the OCI. Was that 2 oil changes with HPL? 
One change and the second run is still in the sump. I will sample again in about three weeks at about 27,500 miles.
Glorious, wwillson !Most recent UOA:
Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 18,700 miles on oil - 158,700 total
This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 158,700 miles and 18,700 miles on the oil. The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 16.5 months. The lab is Wearcheck. I believe we are finally at the point that the cleaning is subsiding...bobistheoilguy.com
These pictures are taken with a bore scope through the filler in the driver's side valve cover.
I started using HPL HDEO 5w-20 in this vehicle at 112,000 miles. The first oil change interval was 26,000 miles and we saw a lot of cleaning evidenced by the black debris trapped by the oil filters.
Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CJ-4 5w-20 - 26,015 miles on oil
Previous UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-hpl-5w-20-21-079-miles-on-oil.344904/ This is a sample pulled from my Durango 3.6L with 137,615 miles total and 26,015 miles on the oil. Consumption was zero during this entire 26,000 mile run, which is a change from...bobistheoilguy.com
The second change is still in the engine and has been in service for 24,500 miles. The engine now has a total of 164,000 miles.
I've been adding my drain oil to my fuel oil tank. Yrs ago, I worked with a guy who once a fleet oiler for a truck rental outfit. He said that what they drained out , they poured into the fuel tanks before they fueled the truck. Nobody complained. Thinking about that, and having 4qts of 0w20 with only 5k miles on it. Heck, red #2 fuel. is dry these days... It is kinda sorta like a 5$ rebate 
Fine as long as you don't have catalytic converters or diesel particulate filters.
Very clean indeed, impressive results.
I do want to address the increasing PPM of Iron, copper, and silicon. I don't know what the norm should be, maybe that's still off the charts low, but at what point does the wear metals dictate the next oil change?
I can see how some would rather spend another $30 on a 5 gal jug to keep that wear at a minimum. So I definitely see a clean engine, but does clean always mean lack of wear?
I kinda agree with you but I can't knock the fact the wear metals are still somewhat low and the TBN is still very good.
But the part I agree with, and this is personal preference, is more frequent changes even if the cost is slightly higher, but likely still cheaper than a long block.
This is my valvetrain on my 02 Envoy at 290K miles, and currently has 335K...pretty much all WW Mobil 1 5W-30 with 5-7K OCI. Not brand new looking, but clean enough. OP's valvetrain looks brand new though...very nice indeed.
I'm not trying to make a comparison as the point of this thread is for the HPL, mainly reiterating @TomYoung post and a 20K plus mile OCI would be a hard sell but after seeing this thread, I'm deeply considering giving HPL a try for the Yukon and Impala.
I do want to address the increasing PPM of Iron, copper, and silicon. I don't know what the norm should be, maybe that's still off the charts low, but at what point does the wear metals dictate the next oil change?
I can see how some would rather spend another $30 on a 5 gal jug to keep that wear at a minimum. So I definitely see a clean engine, but does clean always mean lack of wear?
I kinda agree with you but I can't knock the fact the wear metals are still somewhat low and the TBN is still very good.
But the part I agree with, and this is personal preference, is more frequent changes even if the cost is slightly higher, but likely still cheaper than a long block.
This is my valvetrain on my 02 Envoy at 290K miles, and currently has 335K...pretty much all WW Mobil 1 5W-30 with 5-7K OCI. Not brand new looking, but clean enough. OP's valvetrain looks brand new though...very nice indeed.
I'm not trying to make a comparison as the point of this thread is for the HPL, mainly reiterating @TomYoung post and a 20K plus mile OCI would be a hard sell but after seeing this thread, I'm deeply considering giving HPL a try for the Yukon and Impala.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Iron increases pretty much linearly with mileage, so that's totally normal. Condemnation point used by @Doug Hillary was 150ppm over his 2 million km testing for XOM. Copper appears to have plateau'd, it's not bearing material, as, IIRC, the Pentastar has bi-metal bearings, it's likely leaching from a cooler or something. Silicon is low, and also seems to be pretty consistent.
I recently looked under the valve cover in my 08 2.3 fusion and it was as spotless. Looked like new. Years ago I used some mmo and sea foam from time to time. More recently I flushed with a quart of mineral spirits and have used Rislone as of late. All cheap stuff and probably 60/40 synthetic and conventional oil changes. Average of 7k mile ocis. So I don’t think a guy needs expensive oil or expensive additives.Most recent UOA:
Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 18,700 miles on oil - 158,700 total
This sample was pulled from my 2014 Dodge Durango with a total of 158,700 miles and 18,700 miles on the oil. The oil is HPL's 5w-20 CK-4 based formula and has been run since Feb 9, 2022, about 16.5 months. The lab is Wearcheck. I believe we are finally at the point that the cleaning is subsiding...bobistheoilguy.com
These pictures are taken with a bore scope through the filler in the driver's side valve cover.
I started using HPL HDEO 5w-20 in this vehicle at 112,000 miles. The first oil change interval was 26,000 miles and we saw a lot of cleaning evidenced by the black debris trapped by the oil filters.
Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CJ-4 5w-20 - 26,015 miles on oil
Previous UOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/dodge-durango-3-6l-hpl-5w-20-21-079-miles-on-oil.344904/ This is a sample pulled from my Durango 3.6L with 137,615 miles total and 26,015 miles on the oil. Consumption was zero during this entire 26,000 mile run, which is a change from...bobistheoilguy.com
The second change is still in the engine and has been in service for 24,500 miles. The engine now has a total of 164,000 miles.
If a guy changes his own oil it’s cheaper that way but if he pays others to do it, it might be more similar in cost to use a line like HPL HDEO and pay for UOAs.
Why use all that after market stuff when you can use an oil that is made for extended drains and clearly keeps an engine spotless?
If you’re buying Rislone, and mineral spirits, and MMO, and SeaFoam, and oil that you’re changing several times for each time that Wayne changes his oil, then you are spending a LOT more money on oil changes than Wayne.
Even without the Rislone, and solvents, you are spending more.
But if you need Rislone and solvents, to combat the conditions in your engine, then whatever you’re doing has been a failure.
Why not use a better oil, that lasts longer, and doesn’t need all those extra additives?
You would save a lot of money. And your engine would be better off.
Last edited:
dnewton3
Staff member
A few comments I think we need to keep in mind here, in no particular order:
Cleanliness is a function of three things:
- add pack
- OCI duration
- engine design (it's either a clean running or dirty running engine series by historical tendencies)
So, having a "clean" engine under the valve covers can't be proven to be the functional result of just one input. Engines which run dirty would need better add-packs and/or shorter OCIs. Engines that run clean don't really care about what's in the crankcase as long as it's properly spec'd, even if that oil is not a robust as other choices.
Fe wear rates do track with mileage, but not in a linear fashion:
All the data I have from macro analysis shows that wear rates decrease as the OCI matures. This phenomenon is present in every engine series I've studied; I have over 35k UOAs in my database. However, there is a caveat to my conclusions; they are based on the vast majority of UOAs being predicated on "normal" store-bought oils (from ST all the way up to PZ and Mobil syns). And, my data typically stops around 15k miles, because VERY FEW people run extended OCIs past that point. So my data is VERY APPLICABLE to 99.9% of most situations. But, I cannot report what the "normal" expectation would be here for these reasons:
1) 25k mile OCIs are so infrequently reported that enough data does not exist to do a good statistical macro analysis
2) HPL isn't your typical store-bought oil; the add pack is so vastly different that there's no fair way to compare HPL to other lubes
3) There's not enough data yet to get a good micro-analysis understanding of "normal" wear here for this lube used in this engine
What we know from wwillson's anecdotal results is that the engine wear rates in his greatly-extended OCIs are desirable and reasonable, and clearly the engine is nearly spotless. Both these results are likely the result of using HPL.
Cleanliness is a function of three things:
- add pack
- OCI duration
- engine design (it's either a clean running or dirty running engine series by historical tendencies)
So, having a "clean" engine under the valve covers can't be proven to be the functional result of just one input. Engines which run dirty would need better add-packs and/or shorter OCIs. Engines that run clean don't really care about what's in the crankcase as long as it's properly spec'd, even if that oil is not a robust as other choices.
Fe wear rates do track with mileage, but not in a linear fashion:
All the data I have from macro analysis shows that wear rates decrease as the OCI matures. This phenomenon is present in every engine series I've studied; I have over 35k UOAs in my database. However, there is a caveat to my conclusions; they are based on the vast majority of UOAs being predicated on "normal" store-bought oils (from ST all the way up to PZ and Mobil syns). And, my data typically stops around 15k miles, because VERY FEW people run extended OCIs past that point. So my data is VERY APPLICABLE to 99.9% of most situations. But, I cannot report what the "normal" expectation would be here for these reasons:
1) 25k mile OCIs are so infrequently reported that enough data does not exist to do a good statistical macro analysis
2) HPL isn't your typical store-bought oil; the add pack is so vastly different that there's no fair way to compare HPL to other lubes
3) There's not enough data yet to get a good micro-analysis understanding of "normal" wear here for this lube used in this engine
What we know from wwillson's anecdotal results is that the engine wear rates in his greatly-extended OCIs are desirable and reasonable, and clearly the engine is nearly spotless. Both these results are likely the result of using HPL.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
And of course solvents have the inherent risk of increasing wear, since they are not good lubricants. You are also diluting the oil and additive package as well.
Ive used those things some times during its life. Not a lot. Not sure how much they helped. That’s just what I’ve done through the years. Exclude the cost of oil analysis and it’s cheaper to just change the oil for me. I’ve used more supertech or clearance sales than anything so definitely cheaper for me. Not knocking his routine at all though. I think he’s doing his vehicles well and also showing that there is more than one good way.
I dunno if HPL was a thing for most of those years. I certainly didn’t know about it if it was. What I’ve done with it seems to have done well for it so I dunno why not. The majority was just changing oil. Here and there I used a cleaner.
Well that’s what I hear a lot but I haven’t had a problem yet from doing a flush here and there. I doubt I’ve ever done a long enough oci to need to worry if mmo or Rislone weakens the add pack. Sea foam, I’ve concluded that I think it’s probably not very effective anyway but used as a flush years ago and I did a kerosene 1 qt idle flush before oil change on that car.
I use Rislone regularly in my ram because it is a dirty running engine. Did a motor medic 5 minute flush on it first oil change I did as it was bought used and didn’t know if the previous owner ever changed the oil. I did do a UOA on the oil I used following the flush after 5k and it would seem it had a lot of life left in it. That was just to get an idea how long I thought I should go on ocis.
I’ll just keep doing that and not worry about UOAs for the rest of it’s life and see how it goes.
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