Unable to remove airbag connectors

[atikovi]

I was doing work on the steering column in the vehicle. Even with the battery disconnected; having never worked around airbags, I removed the assembly and stored it face up on the floor.

That's a bit extreme. Removing it was more dangerous than working on the steering column with it still there.

 

[atikovi]

So all in all no there will not be any damage to the clock Spring caused by the airbag going off and there is only likely to be any damage at all if it's a big high energy accident, in which case he'd not be repairing the car he'd be sweeping it into a little bag

Not sure who wrote that but it's an incorrect blanket statement, not to mention contradictory. First it says there will not be any damage to the clock spring caused by the airbag going off, and then he says there is only likely to be damage if it's a big accident. You saw directly what happened to the clockspring from the airbag going off. Well, the accident was big enough to set the airbag off.

 

[RhondaHonda]

Every make and model I can remember when I worked in auto insurance required clockspring replacement after a deployment. Was this for liability reasons or because it was actually necessary, who knows? We paid for it and I’d assume it was done but we never followed up.

 

[mk378]

The airbag controller uses a capacitor to dump a large surge of electricity through the igniter circuit to ensure prompt deployment. Also it is a design requirement that a small amount of electricity must not cause accidental deployment. The conductors in the clock spring are a rather thin flexible printed circuit. They may not be expected to withstand that current more than once.

 

[GON]

Not sure who wrote that but it's an incorrect blanket statement, not to mention contradictory. First it says there will not be any damage to the clock spring caused by the airbag going off, and then he says there is only likely to be damage if it's a big accident. You saw directly what happened to the clockspring from the airbag going off. Well, the accident was big enough to set the airbag off.

I didn't fully understand the author's statement, but thought it implied for the clockspring to get damaged, it was because the entire car was crushed like a beer can, not from a frontal accident causing damage to the front end at a speed fast enough to set of the front airbag. So if one is rebuilding a car, if it is rebuildable, then the clockspring is likely ok

 

[GON]

A couple notes. All the other features controlled by the clockspring appeared to work, including the horn.

Here are some pictures as I break this down further. Of good notice is the protection yellow tubing from the black connector getting close to the clockspring. That may hold a lot of answers.

 

[nthach]

I was doing work on the steering column in the vehicle. Even with the battery disconnected; having never worked around airbags, I removed the assembly and stored it face up on the floor.

I used to work for a company that made inflators for Takata back in the mid-80's. No doubt the propellant used then is different than today.

All the inflators were the same until the 2000s. Takata used a PSAN chemistry in the 2000s - sodium azide and potassium nitrate worked, it was cheap but also toxic and the OEs wanted smaller airbag assemblies.

I believe Morton Thiokol and Takata had the lion’s share of the market back then too. And then Daicel and TRW entered the market.

 

[GON]

Just a follow up. What I have learned, that at least with Toyota products, one should likely need to replace the clockspring when replacing the driver"s airbag.

I purchased new leads, a new aftermarket clockspring, and a used OEM clockspring. After reviewing all three options (soldering the replacement leads, cheap aftermarket clockspring, used OEM clockspring), the used OEM clockspring gave the most confidence.

The biggest takeaway for me is that when a driver airbag goes off, damage inside the steering wheel may occur. Something I wasn't expecting.

 

[michaelluscher]

I was doing work on the steering column in the vehicle. Even with the battery disconnected; having never worked around airbags, I removed the assembly and stored it face up on the floor.

I used to work for a company that made inflators for Takata back in the mid-80's. No doubt the propellant used then is different than today.

Morton Thoikol?
I remember reading papers on their work on the RSV airbags, and unfortunately the Challenger SRB o rings

 

[michaelluscher]

so no there is never enough heat for long enough to damage the connectors on top of

I debate that, as I've watched a few of Vechnor's Grand Am rebuilds
When the drivers airbag deploys, the heat melts the connectors into the module
If you depin and use a new connector shell, you can save clock spring replacement

Judging by the glue/adhesive that isn't factory
Either dealer recall work was half assed, or someone's been in there before you

 

[BHopkins]

Just a supplemental comment whole doing research on airbag deployment and what impact may occur to the clockspring. I have not validated the below statement, but I thought worth posting:

The chemical reaction in the airbag happens for only a couple of milliseconds and will inflate an airbag fully in under 35milliseconds normally. The type of reactions used only generate about 350'C and are over in a tiny fraction of a second so no there is never enough heat for long enough to damage the connectors on top of which the airbag does not back fire all the energy is fired at the drivers face, and separated by a pressed steal casing to focus the energy at the driver's face.

So all in all no there will not be any damage to the clock Spring caused by the airbag going off and there is only likely to be any damage at all if it's a big high energy accident, in which case he'd not be repairing the car he'd be sweeping it into a little bag

As someone who personally has test fired thousands upon thousands of airbags and airbag inflators, I can absolutely tell you that whoever wrote this only got bits and pieces correct. While I can't recall exactly how hot an airbag inflator gets, it is well over the >500° f melting point of the nylon 6/6, that those connectors are made of.

Regarding what looks like adhesive on the inflator, take a look at the caution label on the replacement airbag, shown in the bottom picture of post #26. That is what looks like adhesive.

Have you considered replacing the steering wheel also? When the driver airbag deploys, it hits the rim of the steering wheel pretty hard. You may want to inspect the steering wheel by looking at the rim from the side, and see if it is true all the way around, paying particular attention to the 2 - 4 o'clock and 8-10 o'clock areas.

 

[GON]

As someone who personally has test fired thousands upon thousands of airbags and airbag inflators, I can absolutely tell you that whoever wrote this only got bits and pieces correct. While I can't recall exactly how hot an airbag inflator gets, it is well over the >500° f melting point of the nylon 6/6, that those connectors are made of.

Regarding what looks like adhesive on the inflator, take a look at the caution label on the replacement airbag, shown in the bottom picture of post #26. That is what looks like adhesive.

Have you considered replacing the steering wheel also? When the driver airbag deploys, it hits the rim of the steering wheel pretty hard. You may want to inspect the steering by looking at the rim from the side, and see if it is true all the way around, paying particular attention to the 2 - 4 o'clock and 8-10 o'clock areas.

BH,

Thanks for the information. I didn't notice anything concerning with the steering wheel. But, in concurrence with your post, I did see some melting of the plastic wire shield that powers the volume control for the radio that is mounted on the steering wheel.

 

[nthach]

Morton Thoikol?
I remember reading papers on their work on the RSV airbags, and unfortunately the Challenger SRB o rings

Yep, that Morton Thiokol. The automotive safety business got sold to Autoliv, a Volvo affiliate and the defense/aerospace business became part of Orbital Sciences.

 

[paulo57509]

Morton Thoikol?
I remember reading papers on their work on the RSV airbags, and unfortunately the Challenger SRB o rings

I did not work for Thiokol.