Turbo Volvo oil consumption increasing quickly

[HawkeyeScott]

Asking about this 2002 S60 5 banger turbo I bought about a year ago. I'm seeing my oil consumption going up. 123,365 miles. I changed the oil in May, using Mobil 1 0W-40. I checked in August after about 1700 miles and it needed about 8 oz. make up oil to be at the full line. After the next 1300 miles, though, it needed about three times that. I just checked again and the consumption is now on pace to be about 1 qt./1000 miles.

This seems to be a pretty big increase in consumption over just a few months. Is there any chance the chemistry of the oil is changing and is, therefore, being consumed at a higher rate? Fuel dilution. etc.? Would a full batch of fresh oil cut consumption?

Or, could it be the Mobil 1 continues to clean what was likely a pretty dirty engine and that has produced extra consumption?

And what remedies are there to cut consumption? This is my first turbo and first real oil user, so I'm ignorant and all ears.

Thanks, folks. -Scott

 

[CT8]

It could be many things. PVC system? Check the Volvo boards.

 

[HawkeyeScott]

Sorry, forgot to mention I did the PVC system in January. Box and all hoses about 6k miles ago.

 

[05LGTLtd]

Compression test to check for ring land failure would be my first thought since pcv has been serviced. That's more oil than a leak, unless your engine and parking spot look like a superfund site. Oil seals in turbo would be second thought, but it seems like a bit much consumption for that.

Coolant look good?

 

[SumpChump]

Nothing to worry about. My [censored] Scion xB eats 1qt a thousand and Toyota officially considers it normal.

 

[crazyoildude]

Totota may consider it normal but depending on where the car is registered and the year and mileage free to the consumer Lemon law may not.

 

[UltrafanUK]

If you have cleaned or replaced the crank case vent, then assuming the block is already clean from a few short runs with M1, try using a can of a major brand stop leak additive. It will not help much if the rings are bad, but should help if the problem is caused by the valve guide oil seals.

If the turbo oil seals are bad the turbo will either drip oil or there will be a significant puff of grey smoke when booted.
If the stop leaks fails, then try moving up a grade. If you don't have to suffer cold winters then try Mobil 10w60 EL (The HM version, not the race one) in a last ditch attempt to reduce the oil consumption.
Stop leaks will not help the turbo seals, so if they are bad a thicker oil is worth a try.
Not sure what this car is worth, but if you want to burn some cash, get a compression check done to see if the engine needs a Recon job or changing for a good used one, which is often a cheaper option.

 

[dlundblad]

Since you already did the PCV system, I am stumped. When you had everything undone, did the pan need removed to clear the passage from the PCV system to the oil pan? Apparently those can completely clog.

I stumbled upon this thread on an XC70 forum.
http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?29091-Why-you-service-y-our-PCV-system

I plan on doing hers this winter. I have no idea what consumption is since I change oil based on time, but I seem to add anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 a quart every month or so. Her car used to get Maxlife 5w30 at the dealer. I didn't notice an increase in consumption when transitioning to synthetic. The M1 0w40 seems to work quite nicely with these.

Astro here is a magician with these. Hopefully he chimes in.

 

[Astro14]

Hawkeye Scott - We've talked about the PCV system on this car before and I know you replaced components. If you've replaced them all, then that part of the PCV plumbing should be good.

But the internal passages from the flame trap box on the front of the block to the oil pan are often filled with hard carbon sludge. It's a bit of a pain, but I would recommend that you pull the oil pan and clean those passages. If they're sludge-filled, then you still have a PCV problem despite all your work.

It's not a bad job. A few hours. You'll need the o rings that seal the oil passages in pan to the block. You'll need the o rings for the oil cooler and you'll need anaerobic sealant because Volvo doesn't use a gasket. Volvo sells that sealer and its expensive but I don't know of a good substitute.

The forums have guides to doing it. If you found sludge in your flame trap, it's in the block, too...

 

[Astro14]

One other thought - what oil are you running?

I had been using Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum 5w30 in the XC (same engine as yours) but when I switched to Castrol 0W40 this last oil change, consumption dropped dramatically. From a quart every 1,500 (it has a new PCV system and cleaned block passages) to a quart every 4,000.

With two Volvo "P2" cars, one with 212,000 miles, one with 185,000 miles, I've likely encountered the same "issues" that you're facing....

Disregard this post. I see you're running Mobil 1 0W40. Great choice.

 

[bugeye]

I know you replaced PCV components, but did you verify effectiveness? Check the crankcase pressure with the glove test. Glove should not inflate. Or better method is use a low pressure gauge measuring vacuum in inches of water pressure. Connect to dip stick tube with a hose. A long hose to the gauge within the car will allow you to check during driving boost conditions.

 

[Kira]

As Astro14 stated: "But the internal passages from the flame trap box on the front of the block to the oil pan are often filled with hard carbon sludge. It's a bit of a pain, but I would recommend that you pull the oil pan and clean those passages. If they're sludge-filled, then you still have a PCV problem despite all your work."

All the tips/advice threads I've read on the PCV replacement mention blowing into the flame trap box hole in the block's front to listen for oil bubbling in the pan.

At 196,000 I haven't done my PCV yet because my car was extremely well maintained through the original owner's 68K then by me. And, the 2 Saab PCV boxes I've halved were spotless inside.

I suppose a PCV redo will be in order come Spring in the name of the hoses' age alone. Kira (sissy non-turbo owner)

 

[pbm]

I like Volvo's but I would buy a used one because of this PCV system issue ...aka: Flametrap service... IMO, it's poorly engineered when a PCV system needs a $1000 service every 100K....

 

[irekm]

return tubing that goes from turbo back to the engine ,seal is leaking

 

[Astro14]

I agree that the system is poorly engineered.

But the failures largely stem from the ugly combination of extended OCI stipulated by Volvo and US dealer ignorance about oil. Volvo specified an ACEA (variously A3/B3, or A5, depending on the year) oil, in 5W30 and the dealers put bulk 5W30 in their customers' cars. That led to widespread flame trap issues.

I talked about oil and how it relates to this issue in another forum: http://www.volvoxc.com/forums/showthread.php?19629-Oil-Rant/page5

But as with most cars, you have to look at the whole car. The Volvo wagons I have are very durable: the paint and interiors look new, despite being 15 years old,and parked outside. They are loaded with luxuries and features as well as having sterling safety credentials. And, I'm a wagon fan; it's a practical body style with the room of an SUV, while preserving car ride, handling, performance and fuel economy.

If I've got to change out a PCV system, engine mounts, and lower control arms (all known Volvo P2 chassi issues) every 100,000 miles, well that's a whole lot better than paying far more for a vehicle that delivers less.

 

[UltrafanUK]

Originally Posted By: pbm
I like Volvo's but I would buy a used one because of this PCV system issue ...aka: Flametrap service... IMO, it's poorly engineered when a PCV system needs a $1000 service every 100K....


Most Volvo cars do not suffer from crank case vent issues and even the models that do only have an issue if they use cheap oils that lack enough detergents or do too long an OCI. If the vent is sludged up the block will also have some sludge of varnish deposits.

 

[HawkeyeScott]

No leaks. Driveway is clean. Coolant looks good, too.

The box wasn't terrible when I pulled it off. Far from clogged. There was some buildup in the ports on front of the engine but nothing I saw suggested anything was fully blocked or really even close to it. The former owner had done dealership Castrol syn blend for 7500 miles at the dealer's suggestion. But filter checks after the Mobil 1 only shows some tiny specks of gritty coke coming out and no sludge. FWIW.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: HawkeyeScott
No leaks. Driveway is clean.
What about the engine block itself? Is it clean so you can easily tell where a leak is? Go after the easy, low-hanging fruit first as what remains is much more expensive.

 

[sleddriver]

+1 on what Astro said about clogged engine oil passages. I just read through the links included above and realized these passages are different in your block than mine, which are easier to inspect and clean without dropping the oil pan. Seeing that long, square tube completely clogged shut, from top to bottom, is alarming! No wonder those engines had problems in later years.

I think a rifle cleaning kit with appropriate sized brass brushes would work well to reach up in there from the bottom and thoroughly scrub them clean with a solvent. A small .22cal brush to get the four 90° corners clean too.

What a mess.....

 

[HawkeyeScott]

Whoo boy. Alarming, indeed!