I was reading this week's Automotive News (for those who don't know, AN is the weekly trade publication for the automotive industry). Has a front page article on Toyota quietly (AN's words) settling the sludge issue without admitting fault. The legal website they list for all this is www.oilgelsettlement.com. Pretty intersting reading.
Toyota Sludge Settlement
- Thread starter c502cid
- Start date
- Status
Yeah, we got the "sludge notice" from toyota for a 1999 avalon. It is not a recall or anything. It is just a certificate looking paper you keep in your glovebox. IF there is ever a sludge related issue and you have the notice in your glovebox, toyota will pay to fix it.
Going through it last night, the first thing I noticed was that there are a lot of cars included on the list. Second thing that stuck out is to get a claim approved you must show "reasonable" effort in maintaining the vehicle. Lastly, if Toyota denies the claim, they have a court ordered arbitrator to appeal the process.
So the "coverage" offered in the settlement allows for reimbursement of engine sludge related expenses for eight years after original purchase. IMHO that's not worth much on at least some 1999 model vehicles. And I realize that "covered" expenses incurred years ago may be put forth/resubmitted for claims. What if the vehicle has been traded or junked since? Former owner lost his/her paperwork? What if the engine has visible sludge without symptoms? I read the carefully worded glovebox statement. This IMHO has got to be one of the best attempts at perfuming a pig that I have seen in a looong time. Wake up America!
Rickey.
It's hard to sling a bent connecting rod around here without hitting a sludged up Toyota.
Rickey.
It's hard to sling a bent connecting rod around here without hitting a sludged up Toyota.
Toyota and Honda IMO are both companies that ride on the comfort of their cars being big sellers. They know that even without good customer service, they will sell, so they don't care. I hate Toyota for that. Honda customer service is not much better, either (past experience). Sad to see some people being blind to how arrogant these companies can be...I've heard good things about Lexus though...perhaps they have better humans in the luxury division.
97tbird-
Truth of the matter is, there are lot of stigmas and bad practices in the NA automobile retail/distribution/servicing business which gave many companies (not just automobiles) the bad rap: dealers who claimed to comply with the manufacturer's standard practice, and on the other hand, constantly flipping customers and screw them over and over again.
Yes, you may file your complain to BBB, Honda/Toyota US/Canada and it may seem like the calls fall on deaf ears. Truth is, Honda/Toyota Canada/USA can only ask the retailer/dealership to assist the customer in trouble but cannot force them to do so. So what comes next? Customer still gets screwed from retailing level and aftersales services down below.
I used to serve an import dealership and I know for a fact that here in NA, owners of the dealerships, service writers, salesman, etc. can and will intimidate customers and screw them over and over just for a quick buck.
Do they care for your business? (not many of them ethically enough to care) Do they want your business (heeell yeah!), do they wanna help you when you are in trouble? (not unless you are a filthy rich customer or you are they loyal/royal patrons).
All manufacturers distribution chain headoffice here in NA suffered from the same problems and Honda/Toyota are not alone. Mazda USA used to be just as notorious too...
bottomline: you need to find a good, ethical dealership to handle any aftersales issues you may have. There are bad dealerships out there you know (and over 80% of them are just that).
my 2c's worth.
Truth of the matter is, there are lot of stigmas and bad practices in the NA automobile retail/distribution/servicing business which gave many companies (not just automobiles) the bad rap: dealers who claimed to comply with the manufacturer's standard practice, and on the other hand, constantly flipping customers and screw them over and over again.
Yes, you may file your complain to BBB, Honda/Toyota US/Canada and it may seem like the calls fall on deaf ears. Truth is, Honda/Toyota Canada/USA can only ask the retailer/dealership to assist the customer in trouble but cannot force them to do so. So what comes next? Customer still gets screwed from retailing level and aftersales services down below.
I used to serve an import dealership and I know for a fact that here in NA, owners of the dealerships, service writers, salesman, etc. can and will intimidate customers and screw them over and over just for a quick buck.
Do they care for your business? (not many of them ethically enough to care) Do they want your business (heeell yeah!), do they wanna help you when you are in trouble? (not unless you are a filthy rich customer or you are they loyal/royal patrons).
All manufacturers distribution chain headoffice here in NA suffered from the same problems and Honda/Toyota are not alone. Mazda USA used to be just as notorious too...
bottomline: you need to find a good, ethical dealership to handle any aftersales issues you may have. There are bad dealerships out there you know (and over 80% of them are just that).
my 2c's worth.
and yes, Honda/Toyota have their fair share of mechanical troubles when they try to push their mechanical design envelope further in compliance of emissons and economy. Why would sludge problems happened mainly to NA customers? In Japan, most service centers, mechanic shops, etc. already using semi-syn or full syn when servicing their automobiles, and with very strict emissions and automobile inspections (you need to pass them before you can renew your insurance and legal to drive on the road). Vehicles there typically goes for approx. 6 yrs before their inspections become so cost prohibitive that they would rather sell/scrap them and buy a new one instead.
Here in NA, automobile owners typically covers more mileage and per mile basis, perform less maintenance and inspections and emissions than many other industrialised/post-industrialised countries that I'm aware of. Sludge in this case, would be a common occurance (IMHO, YMMV). While you may wanna cry foul on this issue but I've seen many avg joes/janes pushing their minilube bulk oil job through 10,000miles and beyond and though that gawd would help them in keeping their cars on the road for 10+ years. Not possible anymore, I'd say, unless you are driving a 1950s automobile and try running API SM/SL grade dino motor oil....LOL!
Ok, enuf ranting. back to my work I go.
Here in NA, automobile owners typically covers more mileage and per mile basis, perform less maintenance and inspections and emissions than many other industrialised/post-industrialised countries that I'm aware of. Sludge in this case, would be a common occurance (IMHO, YMMV). While you may wanna cry foul on this issue but I've seen many avg joes/janes pushing their minilube bulk oil job through 10,000miles and beyond and though that gawd would help them in keeping their cars on the road for 10+ years. Not possible anymore, I'd say, unless you are driving a 1950s automobile and try running API SM/SL grade dino motor oil....LOL!
Ok, enuf ranting. back to my work I go.
TOYOTA told people that they could do 7500 mile oil drains. that is when the slugging started. I told them why they couldn't and they sent me a team toyota watch for what I showed them. they are a class act as far as I'm concerned.
use a good oil and do no more than 5000 mile drain intervals. if over that use an oil analysis to go longer.
oil changed as engines did. they use less barrier additive on most bulk oils and alot of people think their mechanics know about oil when they don't. kinda like doctors are not required to take nutrition courses yet they can diagnose and give medication to you without knowing nutrition.
hope that helps.
bob
use a good oil and do no more than 5000 mile drain intervals. if over that use an oil analysis to go longer.
oil changed as engines did. they use less barrier additive on most bulk oils and alot of people think their mechanics know about oil when they don't. kinda like doctors are not required to take nutrition courses yet they can diagnose and give medication to you without knowing nutrition.
hope that helps.
bob
+1 to bob's comments esp./ bulk oils used in "stealerships". The import dealership where I used to serve typically pursue bulk oil based on best/cheapest lubricant pricing and not for quality.
Yes, most mechanics I dealt/spoke to or even the instructor of the trade (where I got my cert) didn't know squat about motor oil, API, detergents, etc. And yet you trust them to be able to keep your engine running?
Thank goodness for BITOG! I'm a dedicated BITOGers now *grin*
Yes, most mechanics I dealt/spoke to or even the instructor of the trade (where I got my cert) didn't know squat about motor oil, API, detergents, etc. And yet you trust them to be able to keep your engine running?
Thank goodness for BITOG! I'm a dedicated BITOGers now *grin*
12,000 miles per year is "average" according to State Farm.
As far as the rest of the car being worn out at 150K, I don't think so. Not unless you beat the #@$%! out of it.
As far as the rest of the car being worn out at 150K, I don't think so. Not unless you beat the #@$%! out of it.
And you received your medical or osteopathic degree, where? (I can assure you MDs and DOs get plenty of nutritional information in their pre-med physiology class and lab time.)
Toyota does a lot of that glove box letter stuff to cover failures and prevent recall actions. My wifes 04 Lexus RX330 just had one of those 7yr/90k letters for the radiator and they about died when I brought in a 2.5 year old RX with 89,500 on the clock and a leaky radiator for them to replace for free. She is close to 95k now and the car still looks and runs fine. I can see this one going to 200k and maybe beyond. My OCI's are 5000 with 5w30 dino valvoline or havoline and factory filters. The v6 only uses about 1/4 qt add in for 5000.
I put 196K on my 96 Camry with 5K oil changes and the atomic orange filter. Now ST oil and filter and still no sludge. I will drive it another 100K if I can avoid any more deer collisions.
We do get snow here, and they do use salt.
I don't miss my '99 Sienna. I received one of those "glove box notices" regarding a trans issue. They would cover certain repairs 8 years / 150K from original sale date.
There's a UOA that shows the infamous sludge issue of this vehicle is posted in the UOA forum from a long while ago. The trans, the engine, the CD player, the clock, the doors that rattled, the window that nearly fell out, the 3rd row seats that would make anyone seasick in just a few miles, gearshift handle that nearly falls off in your hand (made by the M&M company?
)...I just got tired of messing with all the little things on a car that had 45K and was not even 4 years old...Toyota "quality?" Not in this case.
I traded that Toyota for an American made vehicle (Saturn Vue--albeit with a Honda engine). I can't be the only one who's traded in a foreign make for a domestic one.
There's a UOA that shows the infamous sludge issue of this vehicle is posted in the UOA forum from a long while ago. The trans, the engine, the CD player, the clock, the doors that rattled, the window that nearly fell out, the 3rd row seats that would make anyone seasick in just a few miles, gearshift handle that nearly falls off in your hand (made by the M&M company?
I traded that Toyota for an American made vehicle (Saturn Vue--albeit with a Honda engine). I can't be the only one who's traded in a foreign make for a domestic one.
TnS: Was that SATURN even American made? I know the Sienna sure was!
- Status
Similar threads
