Toyota Red coolant in Lexus

[82DMC12]

Hi Group,

Recently had a problem with my Lexus while on the road - terrible overheating problem, I think it's a stuck thermostat (new one on the way!). Anyway I was forced to contaminate my Toyota red coolant with yellow universal pre-mixed, and then straight water a few miles later when I started overheating again. Now I have a disgusting mixture of all of the above in my engine. When I get the thermostat replaced, I am going to flush everything out again of course...

But if cost is no object, is Toyota Red OEM coolant the way to go? Or is there something else that is safe for my engine that is easier to find i.e. not at the stealership...

I used regular green for a year or so until I started noticing white scummy sludge building up on the radiator cap. Flushed it out with water and fresh red coolant and never had the problem again, so now I am very cautious with what kind of coolant I put in.

Andy

 

[Steve S]

The Toyota red is the one to use in toyotas.

 

[CharBaby]

Use only the RED !!!

 

[kanling]

If cost is no object like you say, I would use the red.

 

[82DMC12]

Luckily for me, cost is no concern, so I just plunked down $48 for three gallons of unmixed Toyota Long Life Red. The only thing that sucks is if I still have overheating problems after I replace the thermostat, I may have wasted this coolant.

I am building a coolant flush device out of 5 gallon buckets that will hang from my rafters in my garage. It will be a zero-pressure gravity-fed system with ball-valves on the in and out hoses, so it will function just like the cooling flush machines I used to use at the garage I managed back in the day. I can't see myself paying a shop to do a good flush for me when I can do it myself just as well. This way I can flush as much hot water through the system as I like, then flush with as much coolant as I like w/o paying anyone extra to do a better than normal job.

Thanks for the tips guys!
Andy

 

[Steve S]

Is the t stat in backwards ?do the fans turn on? A cracked cyl head?.

 

[82DMC12]

The t-stat is probably OEM and I never had a problem with my cooling system in two years.

OK here is what happened.
My temp gauge never goes higher than just a little below the middle of the gauge. One day last week I was driving around town, looked down to my dash and saw my check engine light on and my temp gauge pegged out!!! It must have happened within a minute or less because I would have noticed anything out of the ordinary. I'm not a child and I have worked on cars and rebuilt all sorts of auto systems in my time, including restoring European sports cars. Anyway... I quickly shut the engine off and pulled into a gas station parking lot. I popped the hood and had steam rolling out. The overflow reservoir was either boiling or bubbling from steam pouring out the vent hose to the reservoir. I could not see any leaks or burst hoses. Just coolant coming out of the overflow hose from the expension reservoir and running all over the passenger side of the engine bay. I let the car cool down then quickly made my way back to work which was only a few blocks away. When I was leaving in the evening, I saw my overflow was empty and the coolant was low in the radiator fill pipe (remote radiator cap, it's next to the engine instead of on the radiator). I only live 6 blocks away so I quickly got home and parked it. I came out later that night, started the car, bled the system, and added a gallon of Toyota Red until everything was full again. No leaks observed.

Two days later I was going an hour out of town. The whole way there the car was running warm but not overheating. On the way back, it got so hot I had to pull onto a dirt road and it was same thing again, TONS of steam coming from the rad cap vent hose to the reservoir. Let it cool down, headed a couple miles to a gas station and tried adding two gallons of pre-mixed prestone yellow universal. Car was so hot that as I filled it the engine just burped most of it out. No foam in oil or other signs of damage or leaks. Just coolant disappearing probably through the vent hose or as steam. Drove another 15 minutes, had to pull over again. This time I was in the country and stopped next to house that had a garden hose. Owner let me use it and I bled the system and added straight water until it seemed OK. Car was fine until I got home and got off the highway, began overheating again. Added two gallons of straight water (all that was available on Sunday evening). The next day I bled the system again and added about half gallon of regular green just so the system was full again. That was 5 days ago and the system has been ok, running at the right temp, and hasn't lost coolant since. But it is completely contaminated now.... I don't think the engine is damaged because while I haven't measured it, I feel no loss of compression, and when the engine is done being bled, there are no bubbles in the coolant before I put the cap back on.

I am thinking the thermostat must be getting sticky, causing the coolant to boil in the block, and is exiting as steam. Just got a new t-stat from Lexus today and as soon as my flush 'machine' is done I will replace it.

Andy

 

[82DMC12]

Oh yeah and the hydraulic cooling fan works perfectly.

 

[The Critic]

I'd use an extended-life, "universal" coolant at the 50/50 mixture. I don't see a point to using the Toyota "Red" coolant, as it's merely a silicate-free, conventional coolant with a high dose of phosphates.

If the system is flushed out with clean water, and the cap, thermostat, and hoses are working properly, the Prestone All Makes/Models or similar extended-life coolant should work fine.

 

[Ray H]

Actually, Toyota "red" is an OAT (benzoate) coolant with a stiff shot of phosphates for hybrid corrosion protection. (I'm still working on the oxymoron, "silicate free conventional"...) It's been posted previously that the only difference between "red" and "pink" is "pink" comes pre-diluted with de-ionized water. (pretty expensive water when it comes in a "Toyota" jug...)

 

[The Critic]

Nope, there are two different Toyota coolants.

Toyota Long Life "Red" is a silicate-free, high phosphate coolant with a 3 year service life.

Toyota Super Long Life "Pink" is a silicate-free, phosphate containing coolant with a 10-yr INITIAL service life. This one comes premixed 50/50 only.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
Nope. ... Toyota Long Life "Red" is a silicate-free, high phosphate coolant with a 3 year service life. ... Toyota Super Long Life "Pink" is a silicate-free, phosphate containing coolant with a 10-yr INITIAL service life. This one comes premixed 50/50 only.

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Funny how red appears pink after it's been diluted equally with water... Toyota's 3-yr service life for the red concentrate may just as likely be due to the fact that the company has no control over the quality of the water used to dilute it. (Most non-BITOGers probably use tap water out of the garden hose with little regard for whether the nozzle was half burried in dog poop.) Though there appears to be no real chemistry difference, Michael, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, eh?

 

[The Critic]

Ray,

There are many points you and I disagree on. First, Prestone All Makes/Models and Prestone DexCool are completely different formulation. I agree that they list and contain the identical "active" ingredients, but a phone call to Prestone's technical services revealed that the two products are completely different.

Saying that two coolants are similar solely because of identical active ingredients is equivalent to saying that two foods are identical solely because they contain identical ingredients. You can make many different foods from a set of ingredients.

I just recycled a 10-yr gallon of Toyota "Red" Concentrate. The concentrate is of a deep red color, I highly doubt a 50/50 concentration will turn the fluid pink; my father's 92 Previa has Toyota Red 50/50 mix and the fluid is clearly red. OTOH, my buddy's 03 Camry with Toyota Super Long Life "Pink" fluid is clearly pink, and NOT red.

Again, two products, though both happen to be silicate-free and phosphate containing, are not necessairly identical.

 

[Ray H]

Whatever...

 

[The Critic]

Well, I'd still like proof of your claim that Toyota "Red" and Toyota "Pink" are identical, as well as Prestone All Makes/Models being identical to Prestone DexCool.

 

[82DMC12]

quote:

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Saying that two coolants are similar solely because of identical active ingredients is equivalent to saying that two foods are identical solely because they contain identical ingredients. You can make many different foods from a set of ingredients. [Wink]

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Ah you must be talking about the taco bell effect. They can make an infinite number of menu items from tortillas, cheese, beans, chicken, and rice.

Coolants behave the same way! Just trying to lighten things up here...

BTW today i replaced my thermostat and noticed that the inner rubber seal for the thermostat core was cracked and damaged. I wonder if that is my problem? Either way the thermostat was damaged and needed to be replaced. I hope it fixes my problem, I am flushing the system out tomorrow.

Andy

 

[Ray H]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
Well, I'd still like proof of your claim that Toyota "Red" and Toyota "Pink" are identical, as well as Prestone All Makes/Models being identical to Prestone DexCool.

---

I made that claim based on the fact that both Prestone products list exactly the same working chemistry, AND the fact that antifreeze concentrate, ANY brand, is in the 93%-95% glycol range. That leaves very little wiggle room left to juggle corrosion protection chemistry concentration. Obviously we have differing opinions, so I'm making one final request to halt this nonproductive bickering.

 

[ChrisW]

thats weird, i called prestone about a month ago and the person i spoke to said that the all makes and the orange dexcool differ in the dye used (and of course the very very slight variations in pH and ingredient concentration from batch to batch), and the licesesing on the label. I believe this moreso after comparing the MSDS for both the all makes concentrate and the dexcool concentrate.

The 'all makes' does not say "GM dexcool" anywhere on the bottle because if prestone were to put it on there, they would have to pay GM licensing fees from what i understand (the word dexcool is a GM license but the formulation its self is not propietary), which is what they do for the silver, "GM" jug.

The only difference i know of between the 'original havoline dexcool' formulation and the prestone version is what kind of 2-EH they use. I believe that havoline uses potassium 2ethyl-hexonate, and prestone uses sodium.

 

[Ray H]

Thanks for the update. Maybe the matter can be laid to rest, now.

 

[The Critic]

I called several months ago, but whatever.

Perhaps I'll call again.