"Touchy" Brakes

[The Critic]

I know a lot of people who hate "touchy" brakes that have an "on/off" fuel. They instead, prefer brakes that have a more progressive feel. I, on the other hand, actually LIKE brakes that have a strong initial bite. The brakes on the Nissan are fantastic, IMO, and I wish more cars had brakes that feel the same way.

I am curious as to what is responsible for that "touchy" brake feel. Some people have said that it is because of the pad compound. Others have said it is something inherent within the brake system. I have read on the BMW forums that some individuals have installed aftermarket brake pads on their car and their brakes have lost that strong initial bite.

So, my questions are:

1) Does anyone else enjoy having touchy brakes? If not, why?

2) What causes brakes to be touchy? Pads or the design of the brake system?

3) If touchy brakes are the result of the brake system itself, will cars with touchy brakes wear pads faster?

Thanks.

 

[barlowc]

I'm right there with you, Critic. I LOVE the brakes on my Nissan! They make the brakes on my wife's VUE feel like a big pile of mush. When it comes time to do something with her's, I was thinking about trying some pads that are known for their bite. Maybe some EBC? So I'll be interested to see what people have to say to this thread.

 

[JHZR2]

Ive had to adjust the hydraulic brakes on my bike a few times... The best way to make them touchy is to adjust the distance from the pads to the rotors as close as possible, and to adjust the lever arm geometry on the hydraulic device.

Don't confuse touchy for good breaking... Some cars have a quick overboosted initial bite but then don't do much. Some cars are touchy and then still soft.

I prefer a hard pedal, with a strong bite but not touchy as to supprise you. Some cars also have break force assist, and depending upon how it is tuned, the initial bite can vary... My Saab is excellent for this, very normal, progressive feel unless there is an emergency stop. I've not tested it on my 135i yet, but did on a 535 and they were so touchy with such severe initial bite if you pressed hard enough/fast enough that they were borderline dangerous - as this came on too quickly/easily for my liking.

 

[John_Corey]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I am curious as to what is responsible for that "touchy" brake feel.


Hi The Critic,

One answer is clumsy feet, another one is footwear unsuitable for driving. Gary Allan's snowshoes come to mind.

Vehicles with proportionally larger brakes have more stopping power, and this stopping power is available quickly. It is all really about friction.

Cheers,
-J

 

[John_Corey]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I've not tested it on my 135i yet, but did on a 535 and they were so touchy with such severe initial bite if you pressed hard enough/fast enough that they were borderline dangerous - as this came on too quickly/easily for my liking.


Hi JHZR2,

You may want to test the brakes of your new car thoroughly before unleashing yourself upon the rest of us, especially since you from experience know that BMW brakes can be dangerous when you are driving. Please take care of yourself and us!

Cheers,
-J

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: barlowc
I'm right there with you, Critic. I LOVE the brakes on my Nissan! They make the brakes on my wife's VUE feel like a big pile of mush. When it comes time to do something with her's, I was thinking about trying some pads that are known for their bite. Maybe some EBC? So I'll be interested to see what people have to say to this thread.

Because I like the touchy brakes so much, I will probably stay with the Nissan OE pads.

However, Stoptech recently launched a Street Performance Pad (309 series) for the Altima. Supposedly they are superior to the PBR ULT pads and are even suitable for autocross use. They have them available for your VUE and they cost about $45/set:

Centric Part #30908330
https://www.stoptech.com/Products/high_performance_pads.shtml

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: John_Corey


Hi JHZR2,

You may want to test the brakes of your new car thoroughly before unleashing yourself upon the rest of us, especially since you from experience know that BMW brakes can be dangerous when you are driving. Please take care of yourself and us!

Cheers,
-J


thanks for the concern. I actually severely abused 135i 6-piston brakes at the BMW performance driving school when I took delivery of my vehicle. Perhaps it is better stated that Ive never encountered the brake assist clampdown touchiness on my 135i in regular driving as it is even more smooth and linear - unlike the 535 which when it invokes actually feels like the car downshifted into 1st gear (though it didn't), which COULD suprise someone behind. I can stop my 135i extremely linearly and smoothly even in an abrupt stop.

That 535 however (I'm assuming bad controls as it was a very early MY 11 car) could be unsafe... Though at the same time the ultimate example of touchy brakes..

 

[John_Corey]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: John_Corey


Hi JHZR2,

You may want to test the brakes of your new car thoroughly before unleashing yourself upon the rest of us, especially since you from experience know that BMW brakes can be dangerous when you are driving. Please take care of yourself and us!

Cheers,
-J


thanks for the concern. I actually severely abused 135i 6-piston brakes at the BMW performance driving school when I took delivery of my vehicle. Perhaps it is better stated that Ive never encountered the brake assist clampdown touchiness on my 135i in regular driving as it is even more smooth and linear - unlike the 535 which when it invokes actually feels like the car downshifted into 1st gear (though it didn't), which COULD suprise someone behind. I can stop my 135i extremely linearly and smoothly even in an abrupt stop.


Hi JHZR2,

It is most excellent that you participated in the BMW driving school! My proverbial hat is off to you, sir. If only all drivers had to learn how to make a proper e-stop.

Cheers,
-J

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
I know a lot of people who hate "touchy" brakes that have an "on/off" fuel. They instead, prefer brakes that have a more progressive feel. I, on the other hand, actually LIKE brakes that have a strong initial bite. The brakes on the Nissan are fantastic, IMO, and I wish more cars had brakes that feel the same way.

I'm one of those drivers who hate "touchy" brakes that have an "on/off" fuel, I prefer the progressive feel of my Honda S2000's brake.

 

[Nick R]

Have the same kind of "touchy" brakes on the focus, I like em.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
Have the same kind of "touchy" brakes on the focus, I like em.

After a few thousand miles of city driving, they'll get even more touchy.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Toyota's brakes feel almost dangerous with their progressiveness. I loved the Civic's and my current car's brakes. They give me confidence that I can stop quickly if I need to.

 

[DreamerGT]

I had a 00'kia sephia the brake were soft, but if it rained or it was foggy or just damp out. The brakes would become very touchy, anyone know why? I always wondered.

 

[PandaBear]

I love touchy brake, the initial bite I means.

If you want the best initial bite for cheap (and don't care about high temp brake forces), I'd recommend Axxis / PBR Ultimate, that has the strongest bite I've ever experience in my life, and when I take turn driving with others, and forgot to warn them, the bite would really freak them out. It has to be a lot touchier than any OEM pads out there. Dusty like you've never wash you wheels.

Now that I'm using a mushier pads with no initial bites (Monroe Deluxe) at all, I learned to brake harder earlier instead of relying on the bites. I'd say touchy brake masked poor driving, and good driver shouldn't rely on it.

 

[Summerwind]

Agree %100 with you Critic on the prefered brake feel!! "Best" set of brakes in that regard I ever drove was on my '74 455 CID Olds Delta 88. One learned to "breath" on the pedal, but my God, that big brute would "Stop" with authority . I loved those brakes!

 

[SteveSRT8]

Many new cars have ridiculous pedal feel and strangely boosted brakes.

My luxo 4 door sedan can stop within a foot or two of the aforementioned BMW 135i and does it with remarkably good pedal feel and a great initial bite. 4 piston brembos at all 4 corners.

The penalty is DUST. Lots of it.

 

[cchase]

I'm a fan of the so-called "mushy" brake pedal as long as it's just a soft pedal and not a "I'm on the firewall, what do I do now?" type of mushiness.

I like to be able to dial in any amount of braking I prefer whether I'm wearing boots or barefoot. Whenever I drive our Honda I always jam the brakes on from the initial bite. The brakes are terrible on that car, however, so don't confuse bite with power.

 

[CharBaby]

Before I bought my 04 Altima in 04, I test drove a lease turn in which was an 02 and it's brakes were so touchy there was no way I could live with it. There could have been something wrong with this 02, IDK! I had also test drove 04-05 and they were the way I like my brakes to be. Good bite/strong but still progressive. My wifes Lexus is the same but has a muchy peddal but with good bite. They're OK too!

This 02 that I'm talking about had an on/off feel to them and it would have been dangerous in the winters that we experience here in the north east. This 02 as my 04 do not have ABS. I really think that there was something not right with these brakes. This 02 Altima which came off lease had 21,000 miles so I assuming they were still OE brakes but, maybe not! Maybe the pervious owner/leasey changed the pads as the stopping would have certainly put someone through the windshield sooner or later. To me, that was on/off!

I love the brakes in my Altima as they have some of the best feel or, at least right there with any of any vehcile I've owned to date, they really got this right. Along with the ride/handling combo and 4 cyl, I really like driving this car. The engine isn't Accord smooth and the ride isn't Camry/Sonata quiet but, it has the right feel. I drove a previous gen Mazda6 and the Altimas' handling isn't far off. Everything feels right and Im very happy.

A bit off tipic...The reason I went with the 04 compared to the 05 sitting right next to one another was the $1500.00 Nissan Rebate on the 04. The 05's were already out in February/March 04. I didn't like the new 05 grill/lights, fog lights and hood along with the clear colored tail lights. The 02-04 tail lights have red and orange colored lenses under the large clear lense. On the 05-06 tail lights, they're all clear lenses under the large clear lense, or so it seems. Just suttle differences which is why I chose the 04. I did like the new 05-06 interior though. Much nicer than what I have. Less hard plastic on the newer ones.

 

[CharBaby]

And I really like the 07 to present with some nice alterations to the 2010...NIIIIICE!

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: DreamerGT
I had a 00'kia sephia the brake were soft, but if it rained or it was foggy or just damp out. The brakes would become very touchy, anyone know why? I always wondered.


Same effect as using fine sandpaper wet vs dry.
Dry the abrasive becomes clogged quickly,wet the water stops flushes these away so the abrasive remains in contact longer.

Going to a different pad material like Bendix CT+3 or the new Raybestos ceramic may produce a totally different pedal feel with improved performance.