To soon to dump factory fill?
- Thread starter lonestar
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extract the factory fill at around 1,500 miles and then again 3,000 miles later . This is for TOYOTA vehicles that we own or had prior to . Also , changed factory fill of manual gear oil at around 5,000 miles if I remember correctly . Might have been a little sooner .
How do you treat a vehicle on a test drive? Easy on the throttle or aggressive?
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
Originally Posted By: byez
How do you treat a vehicle on a test drive? Easy on the throttle or aggressive?
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
No but it could have been full of junk. 10+ dollars on fresh oil to run it through a dirty filter????
How do you treat a vehicle on a test drive? Easy on the throttle or aggressive?
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
No but it could have been full of junk. 10+ dollars on fresh oil to run it through a dirty filter????
I never really under stood why people dump the factory fill early. I can see break in particals. In my Tacoma i went the full 5K before changing it out. Still going strong.
Originally Posted By: ARB1977
I never really under stood why people dump the factory fill early. I can see break in particals. In my Tacoma i went the full 5K before changing it out. Still going strong.
I do it to put the car on my own maintenance plan, I usually dump the factory fill at around 2k-2.5k, throw in a synthetic and redump at 5k. Then I go on 4k OCI's as I do lots of short distance driving which is a combo highway+city. I go synthetic just to give my mind some ease(dino and syn now a days are very good).
I never really under stood why people dump the factory fill early. I can see break in particals. In my Tacoma i went the full 5K before changing it out. Still going strong.
I do it to put the car on my own maintenance plan, I usually dump the factory fill at around 2k-2.5k, throw in a synthetic and redump at 5k. Then I go on 4k OCI's as I do lots of short distance driving which is a combo highway+city. I go synthetic just to give my mind some ease(dino and syn now a days are very good).
If I were rebuilding an engine myself, the first change would be 500 mi. but with factory conditions and tolerances like they are today, I just let it go until the oil life monitor says to change it. We have done that in the wife's last three new cars (all Honda) with no problems.
Originally Posted By: lonestar
Does anyone know definitively whether or not GM adds any “stuff” in their factory dino fill for break in purposes like a dose of EOS for cam break in or something like that? I purchased a car in February that was built in October 2008 and due to the fact the vehicle has basically set around outside during some fairly cold and humid weather I am anxious to get the factory fill dumped but the car has at this time under 500 miles so I do not want to dump the fill too soon if it is doctored up at all.
Cam break-in lubes are pretty much irrelevant for most modern engines because they have roller cams, not flat tappets. Even with flat tappets, the high-risk part of the break-in job is over and done with in the first 30 minutes of operation. Any assembly lubes used in the vast majority of modern engines will be straight petroleum lubes on bearings and rings, and they're harmless to leave in or to remove- your choice.
The last couple of engines I have built were flat-tappet 60s v8s, but I built them with modern rings, bearings, and pistons. The cam was coated with cam break-in lube during assembly, and I ran Castrol GTX 10w30 during the initial 2000 RPM cam run-in (30 minutes). Then I drained the oil, changed the filter, and drove the engines for about 300 miles, Changed the oil and filter again... ran until 1000 miles. Then switched to the oil I planned to use for the life of the engine (synthetic) and went to a regular OCI. No problems.
You really don't *have* to have those 300mi and 1000mi oil changes with a modern factory-assembled roller-cam engine since its not contaminated with flat tappet type cam break-in lube (which is also mildly acidic to provide the correct surface "tooth" on the hardened cam lobes), but there is zero harm in changing the oil as early as you want. In fact, I *always* do that just because its impossible to get even a factory-fresh engine block completely free of assembly debris. Its usually very small and the filter takes care of it fine, but most engine blocks are still sand-cast and there's always a risk of some silica grit staying in there through the block cleaning and assembly process. There's likely no benefit to an early dump of the factory fill, and there's a small chance that there might be a benefit.
Does anyone know definitively whether or not GM adds any “stuff” in their factory dino fill for break in purposes like a dose of EOS for cam break in or something like that? I purchased a car in February that was built in October 2008 and due to the fact the vehicle has basically set around outside during some fairly cold and humid weather I am anxious to get the factory fill dumped but the car has at this time under 500 miles so I do not want to dump the fill too soon if it is doctored up at all.
Cam break-in lubes are pretty much irrelevant for most modern engines because they have roller cams, not flat tappets. Even with flat tappets, the high-risk part of the break-in job is over and done with in the first 30 minutes of operation. Any assembly lubes used in the vast majority of modern engines will be straight petroleum lubes on bearings and rings, and they're harmless to leave in or to remove- your choice.
The last couple of engines I have built were flat-tappet 60s v8s, but I built them with modern rings, bearings, and pistons. The cam was coated with cam break-in lube during assembly, and I ran Castrol GTX 10w30 during the initial 2000 RPM cam run-in (30 minutes). Then I drained the oil, changed the filter, and drove the engines for about 300 miles, Changed the oil and filter again... ran until 1000 miles. Then switched to the oil I planned to use for the life of the engine (synthetic) and went to a regular OCI. No problems.
You really don't *have* to have those 300mi and 1000mi oil changes with a modern factory-assembled roller-cam engine since its not contaminated with flat tappet type cam break-in lube (which is also mildly acidic to provide the correct surface "tooth" on the hardened cam lobes), but there is zero harm in changing the oil as early as you want. In fact, I *always* do that just because its impossible to get even a factory-fresh engine block completely free of assembly debris. Its usually very small and the filter takes care of it fine, but most engine blocks are still sand-cast and there's always a risk of some silica grit staying in there through the block cleaning and assembly process. There's likely no benefit to an early dump of the factory fill, and there's a small chance that there might be a benefit.
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Originally Posted By: byez
How do you treat a vehicle on a test drive? Easy on the throttle or aggressive?
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
easy on the throttle for the test drive and during the 1st 1,200 miles or so . Try to keep it under 3 r.p.m.s as much as possible and drive at different speeds as well .
How do you treat a vehicle on a test drive? Easy on the throttle or aggressive?
That being said and how most new cars have quite a few test drive miles on them I would take it home and dump the oil within 1k. On my Tundra I just changed the oil and left the filter for the first oil change. I don't think an oil filter would have any wear if any at such low mileage.
easy on the throttle for the test drive and during the 1st 1,200 miles or so . Try to keep it under 3 r.p.m.s as much as possible and drive at different speeds as well .
from some of the U.O.A.s posted here for the YARIS and other TOYOs it shows plenty of contaminants in the factory fill for the 1st 2,000 miles or less . So , tells me to dump it a bit early and then have few more shorter runs of oil after , usually 3,000 > 3,500 miles .
If you feel capable, there's no reason not to dump factory fill oil at any time you drive off the lot. If you really feel remorse afterwards and really feel you need excessive particulate wear in your oil, then you can always dump in the old oil from another car's oil change, simple
For a new engine, the first oil change should be done at 500 miles to get rid of the liquid sandpaper, the second at 1,500 miles and the third at 3,000 miles. You have a golden oportunity with a new engine, time and care in it's infancy can reap rewards later on.
Honda and other manufactures recommend strongly against using the old fashion thinking of changing oil out at 500 or 1000 miles. UOAa on the factory fills shows high levels of Moly and other stuff in the oil. Either the extra additives are added directly to the oil or put on during assembly and it migrates into the oil for addition protection. If the factory recommends XXX miles before the first change then I will never go to less than 1/2 of that. Too many self appointed experts dishing out information as fact. The oil filter is there to keep out any stray damaging bits.
...and the debate rages on...
On my previous car (1998 Camry V6) I switched to synthetic at 3000 miles and OCI of about 6000 miles after that. Engine was perfect when I sold it recently.
On my brand new car I switched the synthetic 5W-20 at 1500 miles. Since the engine is all-aluminum (and I don't believe that it has cast iron cylinder sleeves) I figured everything had seated well-enough for me to switch to synthetic that early. The 5W-20 factory fill that I drained looked almost as thin as water. My new car has synthetic factory fill in transmission, and there is no manufacturer required change interval (ever) on my transmission fluid (inspection only).
On my brand new car I switched the synthetic 5W-20 at 1500 miles. Since the engine is all-aluminum (and I don't believe that it has cast iron cylinder sleeves) I figured everything had seated well-enough for me to switch to synthetic that early. The 5W-20 factory fill that I drained looked almost as thin as water. My new car has synthetic factory fill in transmission, and there is no manufacturer required change interval (ever) on my transmission fluid (inspection only).
hey Mark888, pretty much all Aluminum vehicle engines today use iron sleeves. Remember how early on in it's life that Hyundai Ponys began to consume oil? Well that was because they used aluminum cylinder liners.
I could be wrong but never heard of them not sleeving an aluminum block w/ cast iron??
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I could be wrong but never heard of them not sleeving an aluminum block w/ cast iron??
That is what I thought also, but someone else posted that have a special treatment or alloy for the cylinders that is not cast iron in many of the new engines. I could be wrong. I will try and find out more info.
I could be wrong but never heard of them not sleeving an aluminum block w/ cast iron??
That is what I thought also, but someone else posted that have a special treatment or alloy for the cylinders that is not cast iron in many of the new engines. I could be wrong. I will try and find out more info.
Hi,
Mark88 - Alusil and Nikasil linerless blocks use the projecting silicate "particles" as the wearing surface. Silicate is impregnated at arund 20000 particles per cubic cm
The first really successful use of this concept was via Porsche race cars in the 1960s and the later in a jointly (KolbenSchmidt AG,MB Porsche AG) developed V8 engine (Porsche 928 - MB various)from around 1976
This concept greatly increased heat loss in air cooled and other "hybrid" cooled engines
Many of these production engines now have over 1m miles on them without issues
They do require a special technique for bore finishing
Many engine use this metallurgy today and have done for many years
Mark88 - Alusil and Nikasil linerless blocks use the projecting silicate "particles" as the wearing surface. Silicate is impregnated at arund 20000 particles per cubic cm
The first really successful use of this concept was via Porsche race cars in the 1960s and the later in a jointly (KolbenSchmidt AG,MB Porsche AG) developed V8 engine (Porsche 928 - MB various)from around 1976
This concept greatly increased heat loss in air cooled and other "hybrid" cooled engines
Many of these production engines now have over 1m miles on them without issues
They do require a special technique for bore finishing
Many engine use this metallurgy today and have done for many years
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