Tire age, heat and punctures

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JHZR2

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My 81 MB 240D has Dunlop Sport A2+ tires that were made week 18 of 2005. They might have 10k miles on them if that, and the car is always garaged. Tons of tread.

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Today we were driving in the car and unlike normal, they made a very faint but noticeable wopwopwopwopwop type noise (not like a flat tire sound, more like the sound that my BFG A/T Radials make cruising down the road). Ive put 1300 or so miles on the car since January of 2010, we use it as a weekend drive and go to the beach car. It is practically like new, a time capsule of the w123 diesel cars I love, so I dont use it too much.

I figured maybe the tires had flatspotted, causing the noise, though I do keep them at the upper pressure specification that MB recommends. We were driving and all of a sudden, I noticed more vibration in the car, and then heard a metallic bang. It turns out we picked this up:

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The tire was still hissing air, but was real flat. Of course the tire was really hot on the tread.

Honestly the car was super stable, there wasnt a ton more noise than I had before we caught this metal piece. I was driving 65 MPH and if I wasnt paying attention, probably could have just continued doing so hapily for many more miles. I did have a blowout once in a w123, and it too was really stable and just continued on like nothing happened... A testament to the nature of the design of these cars.

Anyway, the spare was a bit low to me, so we drove to a nearby gas station (a few miles) to air up. What I noticed was surprising... The spare tire was pretty warm (which I would expect as it was in the low 20 psi range). But the opposite side tire was equally hot, and had 38 psi, which is above the standard mfr pressure of 32. It was substantially hotter than either front tire... not expected.

So, where am I going with all this? Not just a story of this evening's events... Instead that Im hearing more noise AND seeing more heat on tires that are kept indoors, out of light, well-inflated, etc. Heat on the good tire felt almost as warm as was felt on the punctured tire after driving and coasting down from 65+ MPH.

Ive seen 6 years and 10 years as the replacement range. Obviously I am between these guidelines. Is it plausible that tires might rapidly degrade past a certain point and rapidly generate heat, soften up, get noisier, etc?

The puncture and the noting of tire heat, which is different between tires (and is lower on the front, lower pressure tires) are really two unrelated things, but I might not have noticed the one without the other occurring. So, does heating and degradation tend to occur rapidly after a point?
 
Yikes nice ride. Consider yourself lucky that you caught the puncture in time it could of been worst for you and your Bimmer. But yes tires just degrade over time even with minimal use. Also some thought if you lived around here I doubt your tires would make it past 6 years. Most owners around here get 3-5 years of tire life, I have confirmed this with the local tire shop managers the majority of their business is owners that have their tires replaced around the 3rd year of service.
 
rwd has more force on the rear tires thus making it hotter? maybe im not saying that's what it is just throwing idea's. btw awesome car i had a 190e once it was insane expensive to repair but it was a nice car. i always and still do want to own a diesel car. i have no real reason they are just cool and efficient.
 
Originally Posted By: berniedd
Rotate the front tires to the back, and the back tires to the front. See if the heat condition persists. Then you'd know if you should think of replacing any of them.


+1. Easiest & cheapest way + keep the air up in 'em.

Dang, that's a nice looking car...
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The reason why the tread is so warm when you drive on low air is because its the air in the tires that actually hold our car up. When there is less pressure than required in the tires, the sidewalls start doing that job. They arent meant to do that job, so they start oscillating. Rubber against rubber is always going to be bad. It generates alot of heat, so much so that it gets to the temperature used to mold the tire. When that happens , our sidewalls start disintegrating on the inside. Hence you see alot of fine black rubber dust when you dismount a flat thats been driven on. This is also known as "Run Flat Damage"

Hope this helps...
 
Looks like a ninja threw a star at you. 7 year old tires? Any signs of dry rotting? I can't see any in the pics...
 
As far as the heat, I never touched my tires to check how warm they were at different times. Clearly driving creates friction between the rubber and the road, different tire pressures would have different friction.

As far as the protected tires showing excess heat, may also be chemical reactions going on in the tire. UV rays are not the only one enemy of a tire. Even without sunlight tires can still succumb to dry rot from ozone and pollution. Manufacturers add waxes and polymers into the tire compound to prevent the ozone from attacking the rubber. They work to the surface of the tire with movement. Without movement these substances cannot move to the surface of the tire to protect it, resulting in dry rot. Will also get flat spots and a weak sidewall from sitting with all the weight in one position.

You probably already know this but stay away from silicon based tire dressings. The silicon prevents the waxes and polymers from traveling to the surface of the tire as stated above, so the tire actually rots faster using silicone. There are modern tire dressings that contain no silicone, contain antiozonant replenishment compounds. Meguires has several. Think you should try them.
 
Beautiful classic Mercedes. And a diesel, you lucky dog.

FWIW, the MB policy on tire life is 6 years. Depends on the vehicle and the tire, but that is about how long I'll go on any set of tires. Unless pressed for cash, why take the risk? Our families are on the road.

I just replaced two full sets (including on our SL) simply because of age. Tons of tread on all nine. With the newer rubber compounds, hardening and aging are not as visually discernible as 25-30 years ago. Don't wait for the surface cracks. Especially in the high summer heat, tires are under enormous stresses. Just saw a blowout last week coming home from work. Nobody hurt, except for a chewed up wheel.

Don't forget the spare. Nothing is more frustrating than having your 8, 12, 15, or 25 year old spare DOA during a road wheel change.
 
Originally Posted By: bourne
The reason why the tread is so warm when you drive on low air is because its the air in the tires that actually hold our car up. When there is less pressure than required in the tires, the sidewalls start doing that job. They arent meant to do that job, so they start oscillating. Rubber against rubber is always going to be bad. It generates alot of heat, so much so that it gets to the temperature used to mold the tire. When that happens , our sidewalls start disintegrating on the inside. Hence you see alot of fine black rubber dust when you dismount a flat thats been driven on. This is also known as "Run Flat Damage"

Hope this helps...


It does, but the point was that the non-flat tire that had 35+ psi in it was nearly as warm, and that wasnt expected. The well-aired front tires were much cooler.
 
As far as age, I just replaced all four of the factory Bridgestone Turanzas on my folks' 2007 Town and Country. The code on all four tires was "3006", so I was right on time, when following the 6 year rule.

They still had decent tread at 44,000 miles, but both the inside and outside edges were chewed off. And somewhere along the line, the original owner had the tires siped, which made them noisy at highway speeds.

They're both in their 70's, and I wanted to stay on the safe side on this. Plus, the spare is mounted underneath the van, in between the two front seats as well...
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: bourne
The reason why the tread is so warm when you drive on low air is because its the air in the tires that actually hold our car up. When there is less pressure than required in the tires, the sidewalls start doing that job. They arent meant to do that job, so they start oscillating. Rubber against rubber is always going to be bad. It generates alot of heat, so much so that it gets to the temperature used to mold the tire. When that happens , our sidewalls start disintegrating on the inside. Hence you see alot of fine black rubber dust when you dismount a flat thats been driven on. This is also known as "Run Flat Damage"

Hope this helps...


It does, but the point was that the non-flat tire that had 35+ psi in it was nearly as warm, and that wasnt expected. The well-aired front tires were much cooler.


Is it heat from the differential being transferred to the rear tires?
 
I suppose it could, but this car has 67hp and proportional torque... and I run Amsoil SVG in there, no leaks. My turbodiesels dont seem to exhibit the same behavior, as I often feel my tires after long, high-speed driving.
 
Last edited:
On the heat buildup issue:

First check to make sure you know both the starting pressure and the amount of buildup.

And a stray thought: One source of additional heat is a dragging brake.
 
I had an 83 240D....I had put some newer style MB wheels on it to go up to 15 in wheels and the tires that came on them was the same as yours and after 10k miles I could not keep them balanced. I could not stand those tires. Switched to Yokohamas from tirerack and I loved them. Actually tried two sets of the dunlops cause I got a good deal on the 2nd set and these were the upgraded ones.....same problem...could not keep a balance on that car.
 
Originally Posted By: mcrn
I had an 83 240D....I had put some newer style MB wheels on it to go up to 15 in wheels and the tires that came on them was the same as yours and after 10k miles I could not keep them balanced. I could not stand those tires. Switched to Yokohamas from tirerack and I loved them. Actually tried two sets of the dunlops cause I got a good deal on the 2nd set and these were the upgraded ones.....same problem...could not keep a balance on that car.


I've never had an issue with the sport A2, and probably have nearly 200k experience over a few sets on different cars...
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
On the heat buildup issue:

First check to make sure you know both the starting pressure and the amount of buildup.

And a stray thought: One source of additional heat is a dragging brake.


The good one started at 35 (factory rec is 32 for the rear), and was 37 on a 90 degree day after 30 miles of interstate.

No dragging brakes - rear rotors stay cool (I do check that from time to time), the wheels stay cool, and at 67 HP, I wouldn't be doing 70 MPH down the interstate and getting >30 MPG if it was dragging, I think.
 
What size are you running? Stock is 175R14 which of course are tiny on such a heavy car.

I missed, is it a full size spare? Maybe the alignment is off when running the donut, scrubbing other tires sideways.
 
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