Thoughts on using a 4:1 "brew" of M1 and group V

[lomez]

In my daily driver / grocery getter / road tripper, I like to go with M1 as it's a solid proven oil, cheapish and sold everywhere. However, nobody can determine what's really in it. Mostly III....III/IV....III/IV/V mixture? Who knows, and I don't want to start that redundant topic

.
My thought is, just to be sure I'm getting a good dose of group V, can anyone see harm with substituting 1 Liter of a known Group V (Redline, Motul, etc) in place of 1 liter of the M1? That way, I'm running about 80% M1 and 20% Group V. I'm thinking I will start this regimen barring any objections.

 

[JHZR2]

I dont see any benefit. This is just the silly group wars, which hasnt proven to haveany practical benefit but making a wallet lighter.

Look at some of the redline discussions... For all the grp V and moly stuff, Im not seeing a compelling benefit.

Top notch grp III+ has oxidation resistance on par with grp IV/V, and in CA, ultimate low temp performance isnt going to come into play...

 

[KrisZ]

What benefit do you wish to gain here? Is there an aspect of M1 that is not performing to your specific needs?

Unless you know exactly what you wish to accomplish here, this is an exercise in futility.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I dont see any benefit. This is just the silly group wars, which hasnt proven to haveany practical benefit but making a wallet lighter.

Look at some of the redline discussions... For all the grp V and moly stuff, Im not seeing a compelling benefit.

Top notch grp III+ has oxidation resistance on par with grp IV/V, and in CA, ultimate low temp performance isnt going to come into play...


Very true, the major brand HC synthetics are now almost as good as the G4 and G5's. I always say major brand, as it is possible to make a bad HC synthetic base stock and a few did turn up for sale on Fleabay for a while in the EU. I hate to think what is in the inconvenience stores in the US as some of them will happily sell you used oil they bottled themselves if you have out of state plates in particular.
Mixing oils is not a good idea unless they are the exact same type, so mixing M1 5w30 and 5w40 to get a 5/35 would be OK for example.

 

[lomez]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
What benefit do you wish to gain here? Is there an aspect of M1 that is not performing to your specific needs?

Unless you know exactly what you wish to accomplish here, this is an exercise in futility.


I def don't want to get into a group III vs IV vs V thing here, as it's been done to death.....but, I seem to recall pretty much every study I've ever seen showing Esters to beat the daylights out of mineral in terms of coefficient of friction / lubricity and total wear over a given number of cycles. Also, Esters are polar molecules. On top of that, Esters also are very effective at cleaning varnish and general grunge. These are the reasons I am (but could be convinced otherwise...I don't know everything

) inclined to desire a blend that contains V. For all I know, M1 has already handled this for me (do I think I'm smarter than them? no)...but, as far as I can tell, they've never spelled it out (maybe I'm wrong there)

 

[Hallmark]

You posed your inquiry as "...can anyone see harm with...". So far, nobody is forecasting harm, but likewise nobody sees any benefit. So, the choice is yours.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Hallmark
You posed your inquiry as "...can anyone see harm with...". So far, nobody is forecasting harm, but likewise nobody sees any benefit. So, the choice is yours.


It's hard to predict harm since nobody knows how these two formulations would play with each other. OP is stuck in thinking only about base stocks, which is only a portion of today's oil performance. The moment he starts looking at oil as a whole package, he will realize that playing a brewmaster accomplishes nothing because there is no way for an average person to verify the new formula. Butt dyno results only count in minds of people who desperately want to believe in their brewing abilities.

 

[skyship]

Part of the reply from Lomez:

every study I've ever seen showing Esters to beat the daylights out of mineral in terms of coefficient of friction / lubricity and total wear over a given number of cycles.

Sounds like sponsored studies or synthetic advertising. Blackstones and the various folks that have done UOA and even full wear inspections have not found any real difference between the use of conventional and full synthetic oils over moderate OCI's where the engine is in normal use. Oil quality and additives are what matters more than actual base stock type.

 

[lomez]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Part of the reply from Lomez:

every study I've ever seen showing Esters to beat the daylights out of mineral in terms of coefficient of friction / lubricity and total wear over a given number of cycles.

Sounds like sponsored studies or synthetic advertising.


No, studies published in major industry trade journals (though I've seen no tests done specifically in an ice....and they probably are testing under conditions not necessarily experienced in a hwy vehicle).

Ester molecules are polar. That alone makes me want to blend them in. Anyway, sounds like no problem that can be thought of. I'll probably go that way. Can't hurt anything but the wallet, and only there by a couple bucks. I personally think M1 is a top-notch oil. In fact, I've used it forever with no problems. Just thinking of the benefits that Esters seem to bring to the party. Thanks for the input.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: lomez
Originally Posted By: skyship
Part of the reply from Lomez:

every study I've ever seen showing Esters to beat the daylights out of mineral in terms of coefficient of friction / lubricity and total wear over a given number of cycles.

Sounds like sponsored studies or synthetic advertising.


No, major studies published in major industry trade journals (though I've seen no tests done specifically in an ice)

Ester molecules are polar. That alone makes me want to blend them in. Anyway, sounds like no problem that can be thought of. I'll probably go that way. Can't hurt anything but the wallet, and only there by a couple bucks. Thanks for the input.


Back when Mobil marketed their oils as "Tri-Syn", the "tri" component conveyed that the oil was blended of three different types of components, one of them being esters, another being PAO....

Just because an oil isn't majority POE doesn't mean that it lacks a sufficient amount of POE for the polarity to be relevant. XOM uses AN's, POE as well as PAO along with VISOM (their proprietary Group III+) to make their products perform as intended. To think that dumping some majority-POE lubricant into this properly-blended mix is going to somehow make the final product better is a bit presumptuous IMHO.

 

[buster]

^+1

 

[KrisZ]

Looks like another thread where OP already made up his mind and just wants to see if everybody will be cheering for his grand idea. If not he will still proceed as planned.

 

[demarpaint]

OP consider reading up on Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. I think it will accomplish exactly what you're looking to do.

 

[skyship]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
OP consider reading up on Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. I think it will accomplish exactly what you're looking to do.


Great so now he will be using 2 different oils and a snake oil, which is going to produce some real interesting chemistry with 3 different base stocks and 3 different add packs.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: skyship
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
OP consider reading up on Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. I think it will accomplish exactly what you're looking to do.


Great so now he will be using 2 different oils and a snake oil, which is going to produce some real interesting chemistry with 3 different base stocks and 3 different add packs.


One oil one additive. How'd you get two oils out of that?

 

[skyship]

The OP is already a self confessed mixer of two different oils.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: skyship
The OP is already a self confessed mixer of two different oils.


I was suggesting one oil and one additive.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: skyship
The OP is already a self confessed mixer of two different oils.


I was suggesting one oil and one additive.


One oil? To rule them all?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: skyship
The OP is already a self confessed mixer of two different oils.


I was suggesting one oil and one additive.


One oil? To rule them all?

Quite possibly the best oil they make, or one of them for sure.

 

[skyship]

AHH!! I just knew someone would suggest the fast shearing Fe shedding old M1 0/40. It's only a matter of time before the Moo oil, Cream, Arexxx and Sealfoam mob turn up, now you mentioned an additive.
Mixers nearly always end up using snake oils once they think they are fully qualified oil chemists.