This looks like a job for ARX!

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Pablo

I was not saying "conventional oil was the problem" I was merely saying it does not belong in a turbo Volvo doing 10K and ~11 month oil changes.

The question remains: Where are the "syn = today's conventional oil" people?


I see your point. I was trying to say that conventional oil could have been fine in this application if the recommended 6mo/7500 mile intervals were strictly adhered to.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: The Critic


I see your point. I was trying to say that conventional oil could have been fine in this application if the recommended 6mo/7500 mile intervals were strictly adhered to.


Absolutely NOT the case.

The higher pressure Volvo turbos should not be run more than 5k on a good synthetic without confirming UOAs.

Many of the lower output turbos can survive at 7500, but ONLY on a full synthetic.

Most decent independents won't recommend an OCI over 5k, as they know the consequences.

7,500 on a conventional can be a stretch even for a NA white block. It's a death sentence on any turbo.

Going over 7,500 is just not advisable on these engines unless you are using an extraordinarily robust oil and tracking the UOAs. Certainly not the types of oil the dealers pump.

The root problem is that VoNA doesn't specify sufficiently rigorous oil requirements, but likes to recommend me-too OCIs for marketing competitiveness. And most dealers continue to pump the cheapest bulk tank conventional they can buy into everything, because they can get away with it.

A 5k OCI is the correct interval on these engines. If it's a turbo, it had better be a synthetic.

 

[c3po]

If you have a Turbo it better be 100% synthetic oil to keep the inside of the turbo from coking up with deposits.

I think there are some turbo's that have a coolant line running from the radiator.

 

[KLowD9x]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead

The root problem is that VoNA doesn't specify sufficiently rigorous oil requirements, but likes to recommend me-too OCIs for marketing competitiveness. And most dealers continue to pump the cheapest bulk tank conventional they can buy into everything, because they can get away with it.



VCNA does specify rigorous oil requirements. It says in the books "Synthetic oil recommended, not used during dealer servicing and must be requested".

My 1993 850 has been getting 10K mile oil changes on Mobil1 10w30EP for a LONG time and has no sludge.

Also, I have worked at three Volvo dealers. Each one had a recommended OCI of 5000 miles and used Castrol semisyn. I believe the semisyn is a requirement.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: KLowD9x


VCNA does specify rigorous oil requirements. It says in the books "Synthetic oil recommended, not used during dealer servicing and must be requested".

My 1993 850 has been getting 10K mile oil changes on Mobil1 10w30EP for a LONG time and has no sludge.

Also, I have worked at three Volvo dealers. Each one had a recommended OCI of 5000 miles and used Castrol semisyn. I believe the semisyn is a requirement.


From the manual for my '06 R:

Oil specifications

Engine oil must meet the minimum ILSAC specification GF-3, API SL, or ACEA A1/B1. Lower quality oils may not offer the same fuel economy, engine performance, or engine protection.

Volvo Cars recommends [Castrol].

Depending on your driving habits, premium or synthetic oils may provide superior fuel economy and engine protection. Consult your Volvo retailer for recommendations on premium or synthetic oils.

Oil additives must not be used.

NOTE: Synthetic oil is not used when the oil is changed at normal maintenance services. This oil is only used at customer request, at additional charge. Please consult your Volvo retailer.

That's not rigorous at all. The warranty interval is 7,500, and that's when the light comes on and the dealers hope to see you. No dealer around here recommends 5,000. But the independents do.

Do you think ACEA A1 conventional is a good idea in an R engine at 7,500? It might work in a '93 NA 850, but never in a P2 T-5 or R.

Your dealer is unusual. Most up here pump bulk fill conventional because it meets GF-3,A1/B1, API-SL. And that's all they have to do.

 

[Volvohead]

Well . . . that S80 is doing better. Over 500 miles are in, principally on the Turnpike. Long, hot drives. The low pressure sensor is quiet. The engine is starting to run better as well, as those ring packs clean up first. The owner is thrilled. We may have dodged the bullet.

Next stop, 1250 and a filter change.

 

[sprintman]

If you change the filter the oil lost will be removing RX. That's why I always tell people too add Rx to the oil jug not the engine so make up oil has the corect ratio of Rx in it. Simple really.

 

[Volvohead]

Or . . . one can just add the ARX separately. Once you've determined the top off amount, it's an easy calculation. A P2 cartridge holds no more than a pint of oil (1 oz of ARX).

I'd rather replenish the ARX from that lost pint than have a filter clog into bypass.

 

[Ignatz]

Some of these Volvos have an O-ring on the oil pump that [censored] out. Do you think the ARX could be swelling up the o-ring and temporarily masking the problem. 3 quarts low on oil in a maybe 6 quart pan should'nt cause the low oil pressure light to come on. At least at idle. Just a thought.

 

[KLowD9x]

Originally Posted By: Ignatz
Some of these Volvos have an O-ring on the oil pump that [censored] out. Do you think the ARX could be swelling up the o-ring and temporarily masking the problem. 3 quarts low on oil in a maybe 6 quart pan should'nt cause the low oil pressure light to come on. At least at idle. Just a thought.

Actually, that o-ring goes between the block and pan. It's a bad design.

 

[Rick20]

I have never seen any polymer seal or oring that Auto-Rx had any negative effect on.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: Ignatz
Some of these Volvos have an O-ring on the oil pump that [censored] out. Do you think the ARX could be swelling up the o-ring and temporarily masking the problem. 3 quarts low on oil in a maybe 6 quart pan should'nt cause the low oil pressure light to come on. At least at idle. Just a thought.


No. This was sludge related.

My guess is the owner was not checking his oil between changes. And 10k can drop three quarts off of many engines.

 

[Ken2]

Originally Posted By: KLowD9x
My 1993 850 has been getting 10K mile oil changes on Mobil1 10w30EP for a LONG time and has no sludge.
My '96 850 turbo is good for 10k with Schaeffer syn blend or full syn. 168,000 miles, looks very clean in the filler hole (stain, no sludge or varnish), and runs great. The last oil analysis at 9k said that the oil was good and test again at 11k.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
So where are the "syn = today's conventional oil" people?


I think if his OCIs had been 3000 miles instead of 10,000 his engine would be fine and this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[ARB1977]

Good save.

 

[Volvohead]

A 1,250 update.

Dropped out the filter cartridge. Sorry no pix (very pressed for time).

A nice little load of granule contaminates was observed in the lower pleats. At least a shot glass full, likely more.

Looks like the mother lode will be arriving on the rinse; I don't usually see significant filter droppings like this on a clean phase.

This engine is running much better now.

 

[flwxman]

Woohoo! ARX FTW.

Good news for sure! Congrats on the save. Let's see if it lasts.

Good luck!

 

[Rick20]

Likely see some more come out with the rinse phase. I would use that to determine whether another clean and rinse is needed. Otherwize a maintenance dose will continue to clean, with your choice oil for the future.