There are three types of deposits which can form on pistons and rings: sludge, varnish and hard carbon. Hard carbon is the most difficult to remove.

[buster]

It's rare you see pics of piston deposits, so I grabbed several photos that were put out by Amsoil, Mobil and Valvoline via their videos/website. We've seen these images before. You can see in the fail photos there is a layer of varnish in last ring grove. You can also see the thick hard carbon layer with the harder to remove deposits (almost impossible per Valvoline).

“There are some deposits that are temporary that you can wipe off with your finger, and there are others that can get very thick,” explained Dr. Michael Warholic, global technology director, Valvoline Global Operations.

There are only 13 people in the country that are qualified to rate piston deposits.

This is a Sequence IIIH fail:

Fail: *notice how hard the carbon looks.

Mobil 1 Sequence IIIH PASS per EE video:

VRP:

Amsoil SS IIIH per Amsoil (double length)

 

[wwillson]

Hard carbon is what we saw in the filter of my Durango that HPL removed. I would love to be able to see the pistons before and after, but removing them is not an option.

 

[jetman]

@buster
I would imagine Cummins and Valvoline have a lot of knowledge on ring carbon. They developed Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE 10-30 engine oil to address a specific problem some of their engines were having with excessive carbon buildup on the rings, which would cause them to stick and send oil consumption through the roof. Cummins TSB150163 goes into detail as to when and how to use this oil to clean out an engine that is suffering from this problem.

Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE 10-30, according to the MSDS, has got some pretty exotic base oils, including 50% ester and 30% PAO.

 

[buster]

@buster
I would imagine Cummins and Valvoline have a lot of knowledge on ring carbon. They developed Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE 10-30 engine oil to address a specific problem some of their engines were having with excessive carbon buildup on the rings, which would cause them to stick and send oil consumption through the roof. Cummins TSB150163 goes into detail as to when and how to use this oil to clean out an engine that is suffering from this problem.

Valvoline Premium Blue RESTORE 10-30, according to the MSDS, has got some pretty exotic base oils, including 50% ester and 30% PAO.

Takes a substantial amount of solvency and correct aniline point range it seems. I think oils without strong polarity struggle keeping pistons rings clean. (many off shelf dry oils)

Valvoline Restore and Protect is a different animal though which does not use polar molecules to achieve the cleaning. Historically polar esters were used to keep deposits at bay. Valvoline Restore and Protect removes them completely.

 

[Cujet]

Not once have I had any carbon or deposits using M1EP, or 15W-50

 

[Jetronic]

Takes a substantial amount of solvency and correct aniline point range it seems. I think oils without strong polarity struggle keeping pistons rings clean. (many off shelf dry oils)

Valvoline Restore and Protect is a different animal though which does not use polar molecules to achieve the cleaning. Historically polar esters were used to keep deposits at bay. Valvoline Restore and Protect removes them completely.

Correct Aniline point means above a minimum ththreshold. But go too high and your oil will compete with the AW package too much. I suppose if you stick to a lower aniline point, the oil will do it's thing slower, or just prevent build-up.

 

[Johnny248]

Not once have I had any carbon or deposits using M1EP, or 15W-50

Have you pulled the pistons to confirm this?

 

[Urshurak776]

There are only 13 people qualified to rate piston deposits? Based on what?

If the engineers at Farbianks Morse / Colt are not on the list of people, you need a new list. Some of the best engineers I have ever seen dealing with these very issues.

 

[buster]

There are only 13 people qualified to rate piston deposits? Based on what?

If the engineers at Farbianks Morse / Colt are not on the list of people, you need a new list. Some of the best engineers I have ever seen dealing with these very issues.

9:50-10:20

Also, GM dexos has a 5.3 WPD average compared to API's 4.6.

 

[Urshurak776]

9:50-10:20

View attachment 298486


Also, GM dexos has a 5.3 WPD average compared to API's 4.6.

Not sure you should take this channel for Gospel. My .02.

 

[OVERKILL]

Not sure you should take this channel for Gospel. My .02.

It may just be a formal certification that somebody who is qualified has to obtain in order to perform this task for this SAE test. IE, "qualified" in this case may simply be the number of people who have bothered to get the certification, since I suspect evaluating pistons for IIIH isn't a huge employer globally.

 

[buster]

^Most likely.

 

[Jpc1623]

How fast or how long does it take for carbon like the to build up on piston rings?

 

[buster]

How fast or how long does it take for carbon like the to build up on piston rings?

Well technically deposits start forming from the very beginning of the engine's life. Some oils prevent deposits much better than others and keep them at bay longer. This keeps the engine working at peak efficiency. The better oils keep deposits from forming.